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Uh, just no. Sorry, but no. I say this as a mom of a kid with ADHD and one who is around children this age a lot: screaming and throwing fits is what 3-year-olds who have missed their naps do. 5 year olds should be able to make it through a school day without screaming, and fit throwing should be grounds for going to the principal's office.
As for the OP's question...them's the breaks in public school, I think. There are arguments on both sides of this vis a vis mainstreaming, but the battle is over as far as public policy is concerned. The kid stays until they are a danger to someone. If you don't like it, fork over your own money for private.
Agreed on fits being common place in K & 1 - NO WAY!! I don't even remember kids throwing fits and screaming when I was in K & 1. Some occasional hurt feelings and tears, but throwing the kind of outburst pp described would have led to an ASAP trip to the principal's office for a chat about good behavior.
I hope schools (and parents!) don't tolerate those antics these days!!
Advice from teachers would be especially appreciated.
I know this is a really difficult topic so I'll tread as carefully as possible.
Within a local suburban public elementary school the child of some friends is classmates with a little girl who has learning difficulties (the parents of the little girl told my friend she has ADD, some Autism spectrum difficulties and hearing problems). Most of the time the little girl is just fine and apparently very nice to everyone. However, over the last few weeks she has had two or three screaming, yelling, crayon throwing etc. episodes per week. The perception of my friends, who are level headed very well educated folks, is that the teacher spends a disproportionate amount of time with the little girl and the TA, who I guess is there full time or close, spends more than half of her time with the little girl.
At what point would you as a parent of one of the other kids take some sort of action?
At what point should the school remove the disruptive child?
My reference point is private catholic schools where this sort of thing would not be tolerated.
A Catholic school is not expected to 'mainstream' these types of kids (although we haven't exactly defined what the child's condition is).
There are factors such as is this actually ADHD as diagnosed by a psychologist or some catch-all phrase thrown at any kid that acts up?
So assuming it's ADHD and Autism (so mis-diagnosed and overly diagnosed with little regard to DSM criteria)- does the child have normal mental capacity? Can she learn? Assuming, normal intelligence, is she expected to improve with time as well?
However if there are crayons involved- tantrums and screaming are quite common, they should be trailing off in kindergarten, but they happen, and no one dies when they do in my brief experience as a substitute teacher. This kid hasn't hit my 'disruptive' threshold by your description. And what 'action' should the parent do besides bourgeoisie decadance of calling for a school board meeting?
So this actually sounds like a child that would benefit from mainstreaming
A Catholic school is not expected to 'mainstream' these types of kids (although we haven't exactly defined what the child's condition is).
There are factors such as is this actually ADHD as diagnosed by a psychologist or some catch-all phrase thrown at any kid that acts up?
So assuming it's ADHD and Autism (so mis-diagnosed and overly diagnosed with little regard to DSM criteria)- does the child have normal mental capacity? Can she learn? Assuming, normal intelligence, is she expected to improve with time as well?
However if there are crayons involved- tantrums and screaming are quite common, they should be trailing off in kindergarten, but they happen, and no one dies when they do in my brief experience as a substitute teacher. This kid hasn't hit my 'disruptive' threshold by your description. And what 'action' should the parent do besides bourgeoisie decadance of calling for a school board meeting?
So this actually sounds like a child that would benefit from mainstreaming
1. I get that catholic schools do not generally attempt to mainstream kids.
2. Regarding your second series of questions - the girl's mom told my friends that the girls has ADHD, some autism spectrum symptoms and hearing issues. That's all I know.
3. I'm shocked that you think any kid stopping down class 2 or 3x per week and requiring the most of the attention of the TA isn't disruptive.
4. I get that mainstreaming may be good for the girl. At what point does what is good for her get trumped by what is bad for everyone else?
1. I get that catholic schools do not generally attempt to mainstream kids.
2. Regarding your second series of questions - the girl's mom told my friends that the girls has ADHD, some autism spectrum symptoms and hearing issues. That's all I know.
3. I'm shocked that you think any kid stopping down class 2 or 3x per week and requiring the most of the attention of the TA isn't disruptive.
4. I get that mainstreaming may be good for the girl. At what point does what is good for her get trumped by what is bad for everyone else?
I got the feeling that the 'bad' behavior was fairly recent and had not been sustained. That's the way I read it- so I assumed her behavior was acceptable before this.
#4- That's a tough one. I'm not a developmental psychologist- I'm not sure how these kid do over the long term, don't know if it abates with age or not. Honestly, I'm not sure where I'd draw the line as a parent on this one.
Inclusion is the way education is going, full 100% no exception other than severely CI.
Is it a joke? for some student sit surely is not beneficial. While inclusion is a goal, it can never be all inclusive for every student. Unfortunately NO ONE at the top is listening.
3. I'm shocked that you think any kid stopping down class 2 or 3x per week and requiring the most of the attention of the TA isn't disruptive.
I'm curious as to the role of the TA in the classroom. Is each classroom in the school assigned a TA? Or is the TA assigned to the classroom to assist with mainstreamed students in the classroom? Could the TA be assigned specifically to the student having the meltdowns? I ask this, because in my district, TA's can be assigned to classes for the purpose of assisting with mainstreamed students, or can be assigned to a specific mainstreamed student. This second scenario, a 1:1 TA assignment, is often used in cases of high-functioning autism (HFA) students.
If the TA is assigned to the student, or assigned to the class for the purpose of assisting with mainstreamed students, it seems that requiring most of the attention of the TA is fulfilling exactly the purpose of the TA. The TA works with the mainstreamed student so that the teacher can move forward with the rest of the students. It may be helpful to find out if there are alternatives to keeping the student in class if a meltdown is occurring. The mainstreamed student may be well served by a short walk in the hallway with the TA so that she may get her bearings back, and the teacher can carry on with class. Sometimes, with HFA students, something may occur that other students can absorb and move on, but they simply cannot. This could be a something as simple as a change in schedule, or a planned activity being cancelled or delayed. This causes the HFA student to have a "meltdown" such as you describe. A skilled TA can sometimes see the student getting agitated, and remove them before the meltdown occurs, but that would depend on the requirements of the school as far as what is allowed in working with mainstreamed students. But this takes time, and getting to know the student well. If the TA has changed recently, this may be causing problems that had not been previously existing. Full disclosure, I am the parent of an HFA student, who has had 1:1 assignment in the past. The role of the TA in every class to which she was assigned, was either that of a 1:1 assignment, or a classroom assignment with the specific purpose of working with mainstreamed students. If the TA is using 100% of her attention and energy on a mainstreamed student so that the regular classroom teacher is able to continue lessons with the remainder of the class, with as little disruption as possible, then the TA is doing their job exactly as needed.
5 and 6 year olds scream and throw fits. Yours don't/didn't? They aren't mature enough to completely understand to be "good" all day at school. They don't completely understand to use their words to resolve issues. They are "me" centric and everything is about them and they want their way.
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I have 4, and no, they did not throw screaming and throwing fits as 5 or 6 year old. Certainly not at school!! They never did, nor did their classmates, in preschool either.
Your children threw screaming and throwing fits as 5 and 6 year olds? And in school?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear
Never. As a child with special needs she has the legal right to certain treatment. The other students do not have equivalent legal rights.
Least restrictive environment is really a major problem in our educational system. It really is a detriment to our children that everyone is in the same classroom learning the same things dispite their abilities. It hurts the high achievers, the average student, and the children with special needs. I'm not saying some accomodations can't be made to make students with learning disabilities succesful, but when teachers need to physically restrain students, or worry about protecting other students, that is not fair to the other 20 kids in that class.
But yes, currently, those other students have no rights.
When a student is regularly disruptive to the point that it's hindering the learning of the other 20+ kids in the class, then it's time to put the student in a different environment.
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