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I did not watch the whole documentary but ironically just finished a quick skim of the book with the same title that includes some essays from people featured in the movie and provides sources for the studies cited in the book.
Don't know if this was already addressed, but I found it interesting that in the book, it was mentioned by the KIPP founder that he didn't really consider parental involvement to be that much of a factor in the success of low income children. That if there were strong, motivated, involved teachers and extremely strong leadership from the principal, that the children would learn. Simple as that. I am a fan of KIPP schools and of the Ron Clark Academy, a private school here in the Atlanta area, both of which take low income, minority children and make them excel, most of the time they surpass their suburban counterparts.
So if the gist of the documentary is "excellent teaching makes excellent students" then I agree. In the book it was mentioned that the characteristics of a "super school" were high expectations, strong leadership, and excellent teachers. Also the use of standardized test as a means to see how the student is growing in a particular field.
My son goes to a charter school right now because our neighborhood schools, I don't feel are good enough for him. I don't think most of the poor black schools in Atlanta are good enough for the children that attend them. I also don't think that charter = answer - as most charter schools who do not adhere to guidelines such as those at KIPP schools or "promise" academies and others, do not fare so well. I do think it comes down to structure, and an intense desire and will of teachers/administrators to teach those children.
I also do feel that, like charter schools, all public schools should be able to kick out disruptive students after a certain period of time where that child and his/her family are not adhering to rules or disciplinary procedures. I grew up in a poor neighborhood and we had some bad kids and those kids were moved after a few months and sent to "the bad kid school." It helped make our classrooms centers of learning and I feel that is the main factor in many of our traditional schools faring so poorly. On a side note, I also think that too many schools put kids in a box when it is unwarranted. In my district there was a board that kids had to go to before they were expelled, one that was objective and not a part of any school, I feel they should bring that back as well to ensure that some kids aren't just picked on by teachers with issues with that particular child, as I have seen this happen before with my own eyes.
On the whole, I think most teachers are great teachers. I only had one teacher in my K-12 years that I would consider "bad" and "uncaring." But one is too much IMO and if KIPP and other, similar charter schools can get such exemplary results, basically erasing the achievement gap especially with black and hispanic children, I do not see why this cannot be done at all schools.
Many like to say that blacks and hispanics fare poorly due to demographics, poverty, or even parenting, but on the whole I don't see that as the case. I see it that less is expected from these students on multiple levels, and if they were faced with high expectations in school from deeply committing, caring faculty and staff then those children will do well in school. From my skim of the book, that is what I gathered the movie is about but I'm sure that that message was probably over dramatized.
How about two words: Absent fathers. Single mom's for the most part are doing their best but there is little that can substitute for two parents in the home.
There is a lot in our society that's failing, besides the public education system.
Last edited by toobusytoday; 01-16-2013 at 11:48 AM..
Reason: removed comments about mod action
I agree. Poverty on its own produces huge problems. SES predicts test scores with deadly accuracy. But honestly all this stuff is so intertwined, I don't think you can pull out any one thi
If nothing else, I want them to lose this "one size fits all" mentality, where they keep looking for the magic method that will cause all kids of all ages and all stripes to get perfect scores on standardize tests. Not gonna happen.
This^^
Even as a student, i know that everyone learns differently. I feel that there is too much pressure to teach to the test which allows for students to quickly become lost in the system.
I understand everyones point about how a student must care about their own education but even students who do sometimes get lost. For example if a student cares about learning bit is only able to understand enough to make the bare minimum as far as grades go. That student will continue to be passed on and where will he be by the time he makes it to high school?! I think THATS where the public schools fail us. I think in order for us to truly advance we need a more student focused/ student generated approach to teaching.
I wasn't in an ELL program- that's the point. I was in a mainstream, English classroom. It took me about 6 months before I was completely fluent.
What classroom are you talking about where the kids hang out?
Sorry, I just caught this. I knew that you weren't in an ELL program--When I said "your" ELL, I meant TX schools ELL. But here's the thing--I think you are probably a strong lady and learn quickly--at least that's the impression that I get. But students come in all kinds of temperaments and some give up more easily than others and some don't learn very quickly at all and need a lot of help. Some of our teachers (not many thankfully!) have no clue as to how to work with our kids and need gentle suggestions and I've even had to to go to bat for our kids b/c of some teachers' insane policies. Our kids are not "balkanized." They spend one, or at most 2 classes a day with us until they are ready to be completely on their own and they tend to learn almost as quickly as you did, but with subject support.
I have worked with sped students and ELLs and gen ed and my belief is that it is cruel to throw work at a child that can't possibly hope to master it or even understand the directions of it and it doesn't make sense to do that anyway. I have seen children emotionally scarred over this and over time many will quit trying and find something else that they can be successful in and that may not be what society had in mind.
Besides, schools hate to spend money on extra (unglamorous) programs so you can be sure that if it wasn't needed, they wouldn't do it. Last year I wasn't sure if I'd get to keep my job and they took their dear time to let me know if I had one for the next year, but strangely enough, about 2 weeks after the standardized test they let me know I was rehired. They just hired another one of me so I'm thinking my job is more secure and that surely has to do with the fact that we help raise test scores, the real bane of school excellence. I mean, you didn't really think this was all about the child did you? But if in watching out for the survival of the institution they just happen to help some students along the way, then it's fine with me and I will have a job next year I hope.
To answer your final question--they hang out before school, after school, or on their lunch period which just happens to be our plan time.
Schools zoned to Chinatown. Schools are supposed to receive 90% proficient.
PS124
77% proficient. That is the top school in the area.
PS130
67% proficient
MS131
23% proficient
Pace High School
Regent exams are all over the place, but they are below the state average in Algebra 2, Trigonometry, Chemistry, Earth Science, Geometry, Integrated Algebra, Mathematics B, US History, and Government.
They are above the average in English, Global History, Geography, and Living Environment.
Again keep in mind there are several housing projects in this area that are not exclusively Chinese. At any rate a comparison with a similar poverty profile such as Harlem is a better comparison than statewide.
One thing is for sure many of Asian students in Chinatown end up at elite schools.
I don't think the system fails those in low income areas, or any area really. I think it is user error that fails the system. If you don't show up for school, your parents don't care if you do well in school, nothing is going to change that attitude. We've seen it in practice, inner city poor kids bused to some of the best schools in the nation and they STILL fail--why, because their families don't care if they get a good education or not. Until THAT changes, nothing is going to help "the system".
Before I had kids in the public school system, I would have been in vague agreement with this statement. Now that I have seen how it operates, I can say, yes, the system does fail at times. I think there is an assumption in your statement that no low income families care about how their children do in school......which isn't always the case.
Sometimes I'll respond to these posts on a blog or a message board with anecdotes of what we've seen in our public system. This time I think I'll keep things brief. While there are many in our education system who show up every day with the intention of truly making a good faith effort in their roles, there are also some that do not.
Before I had kids in the public school system, I would have been in vague agreement with this statement. Now that I have seen how it operates, I can say, yes, the system does fail at times. I think there is an assumption in your statement that no low income families care about how their children do in school......which isn't always the case.
Sometimes I'll respond to these posts on a blog or a message board with anecdotes of what we've seen in our public system. This time I think I'll keep things brief. While there are many in our education system who show up every day with the intention of truly making a good faith effort in their roles, there are also some that do not.
Then I'll keep my retort brief: There is a significantly higher percentage of parents that are not making good faith efforts in their roles than there are educators not making a good faith effort in their roles. Anecdotes are almost pointless when getting to the bottom of why America gets its butt beat on TIMSS. If you disaggregate the data, it's plain to see that results correlate almost perfectly with socioeconomic status.
The education system is far from perfect, however many of the suggested reforms are based on questionable research that willfully ignores reality. In the long run these policies are going to seriously damage the morale of both students and educators and eventually blow up in our collective faces as a society.
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But if in watching out for the survival of the institution they just happen to help some students along the way, then it's fine with me and I will have a job next year I hope. 
