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The whole point of a gifted program is to help those student who "get it" faster. I think parents who (no matter what their nationality) push very young students too hard are doing their kids no favors and just want some bragging rights for themselves.
I agree that hard work is very important, and certainly children exposed to more reading, writing and math etc. are more likely to do better on tests. However, I think it is important to note that there is a difference between achievement tests and ability tests.
Children who work hard have a higher likelihood of doing well on an achievement test but not necessarily an abilities test. When my daughter took her test at the university, for example, they made it clear upfront in the literature that the math section could be completed without really doing any math or even knowing how to do the math. For example, my daughter had not learned how to do multiplication yet when she took the test. However, questions may include: Which is bigger 582 x 3 or 582 x 4? This is a simplistic logic question.
Whether or not such abilities tests should be used is a different question. However, it does seem to be true that children who do well on these tests tend to learn faster. Therefore, gifted placement may be appropriate for them.
I have given some of the gifted tests. Other than the verbal part, they were more pattern-recognition than anything else. There was no math that I remember, not even the type of question you mention. There was really nothing that resembled anything taught in school. However, one can improve a lot on those pattern questions just by practicing.
These cogat tests, especially for young kids, are strange IMO.
100% I would prep them if you know they are going to take these tests, and you want them in.
Supposedly it tells you the childs IQ.
Yet if you take an unprepped, above average kindergarten aged child, give him a test with questions offered in a way they have never seen before, they (with rare exceptions) can expect to come out around 100.
Take the same kid, get some practice tests, go over them explaining how the questions are meant to be answered, get him aware of what they are looking for, and the child most times will 'raise his IQ' by 20-30-even 40+ points in a couple weeks.
Did he get that much smarter? Of course not but hey thats his IQ now, a 145 so to some people yes it did make him smarter.
With older children who are used to more types of questions, it might not be as drastic i have no direct experience with them.
Now you might say, they are meant to be taken with no prep. You cheat the system prepping them. Thats fine in a perfect world.
But you send your child in unprepared, never seeing these types of tests before.. while the kid next to him(actually most of the kids next to him, in my experience)..while not as smart, has those parents that push for it, or only want 'the best for my kid'...(hey if no one bought those practice tests and workbooks, amazon wouldn't sell them)
And the less intelligent kid comes out with the 'higher IQ' and the 'gifted' tag, better teachers, better classes, and in 2 years that kid will be smarter because yours will be doodling or dozing off in class while the normal teachers preaches to the 'middle' and everyone has to catch up, while the 'gifted' kid is being taught and nudged to learn more.
And what if its too hard for your kid? simple, take him out.
Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. This is a very American way of looking at "giftedness." People of many other nationalities routinely prep their kids for those tests, and they do get into the gifted programs and they do succeed there. Americans believe that academic success comes from within and cannot be taught or forced. I think the proportions of Asian students in our gifted programs somewhat militates against that belief, at least to those of us familiar with Asian communities and their heavy participation in tutoring and test prep activities, even at a very young age. They believe academic success comes from hard work and that all their children can be "gifted" if they work hard enough.
If a child at the age of 6 or 7 is capable of prepping for a test at all, then they will likely do just fine in a "gifted" program. Notice I put gifted in quotes - the majority of students who are "gifted" are just hard workers who are smart - they are not little Mozarts. I have taught these kids, both in elementary school and when they get to college, and a few are really talented, but most are just smart and hard working.
These cogat tests, especially for young kids, are strange IMO.
100% I would prep them if you know they are going to take these tests, and you want them in.
Supposedly it tells you the childs IQ.
Yet if you take an unprepped, above average kindergarten aged child, give him a test with questions offered in a way they have never seen before, they (with rare exceptions) can expect to come out around 100.
Take the same kid, get some practice tests, go over them explaining how the questions are meant to be answered, get him aware of what they are looking for, and the child most times will 'raise his IQ' by 20-30-even 40+ points in a couple weeks.
Did he get that much smarter? Of course not but hey thats his IQ now, a 145 so to some people yes it did make him smarter.
With older children who are used to more types of questions, it might not be as drastic i have no direct experience with them.
Now you might say, they are meant to be taken with no prep. You cheat the system prepping them. Thats fine in a perfect world.
But you send your child in unprepared, never seeing these types of tests before.. while the kid next to him(actually most of the kids next to him, in my experience)..while not as smart, has those parents that push for it, or only want 'the best for my kid'...(hey if no one bought those practice tests and workbooks, amazon wouldn't sell them)
And the less intelligent kid comes out with the 'higher IQ' and the 'gifted' tag, better teachers, better classes, and in 2 years that kid will be smarter because yours will be doodling or dozing off in class while the normal teachers preaches to the 'middle' and everyone has to catch up, while the 'gifted' kid is being taught and nudged to learn more.
And what if its too hard for your kid? simple, take him out.
This one too. Just do yourself a favor and prep you little girl to the best of your ability.
Ugh. Kids KILL themselves and think that cheating is normal because their parents push them too hard, and here on this forum, some of you are advocating having a SIX year old prep for a test that is not supposed to be prepped for BECAUSE OTHER KIDS PARENTS PREPPED THEM?? What is wrong with this picture?
cheating? no one says you are not allowed to prep for them.
the belief by some is that you can't really prep for them.
thats a huge difference.
reality is, you definitely can prep for them and you can take any slightly above average 6 year old and prove the point.
its like any other walk of life, and its certainly not cheating.
if your kid is the best athlete in the school, but the most he pushes it is kickball in gym class.. he is going to be lapped by the kid whos slightly less naturally talented but practices every day and his parents take him to personal training sessions.
go look at any 10 year old all star little league team and half the kids belong there. the other half are average players whos dads are coaches or friends with the coaches.
life isn't fair, even at that age. put your kid in best position to succeed.
Ugh. Kids KILL themselves and think that cheating is normal because their parents push them too hard, and here on this forum, some of you are advocating having a SIX year old prep for a test that is not supposed to be prepped for BECAUSE OTHER KIDS PARENTS PREPPED THEM?? What is wrong with this picture?
I don't understand how it's cheating. It's not against any rule. There are legitimate test prep books for sale in bookstores, and courses that are actually given by people in the community whose kids have gotten into gifted programs. None of it is secret.
Also, I don't think there is anything wrong with it because education in the gifted programs is often just plain better. They have more resources, more freedom, less teaching to the test, and don't have to deal with the problem of teachers whose time is monopolized by struggling students. It's the education most students should probably get to begin with, or at least any that can handle it. But they don't give most students a chance to even try it, because the gateway to those programs is a lot of testing and number-counting meant primarily to minimize spending, not keep kids out who don't belong there. I mean, it's an arbitrary cutoff - there is no number that guarantees a child can't hack it. It's a cutoff set for funding purposes.
Ugh. Kids KILL themselves and think that cheating is normal because their parents push them too hard, and here on this forum, some of you are advocating having a SIX year old prep for a test that is not supposed to be prepped for BECAUSE OTHER KIDS PARENTS PREPPED THEM?? What is wrong with this picture?
You have it all NOT figured out.
You don't have a six year old prepping for a test that is not supposed to be prepped.
You have a six year old prepping for a test that is used to track children THIS AGE into labeled categories that boil down to "smart" vs. "not so smart". THIS is not what is supposed to exist in the first place at this age - not the prepping or the doing of what other parents do.
Given the parent cannot change the system - she is doing the right thing by trying to work WITHIN it - as absurd as it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marie5v
It's the education most students should probably get to begin with...
I did not mean to say that prepping for this test was cheating. But cheating comes from pressure from parents and peers to do the very best on every test no matter what. There will be many, many chances for this little girl to show how smart she is. IMHO, this test should be about native intelligence, not test prep smarts.
As for changing the system, as someone much smarter then me once said, "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem."
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