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Failing schools will only become successful if they can exchange failing students for successful students.
I think you overestimate the students and underestimate the effect of teachers and administrators. The fact is students will only be good if the teacher is able to engage students. Sure some students are not going to be engaged at all but others are going to need the right teachers to match them. Watch the the ducanville video again. I'll even like it for you here.
Kids are in school for 7.5 hours a day now (8-3:30 in my school). By that last period they are mentally shot, they zone out and the chronic misbehaving are practically bouncing off the walls.
And they want to add another 2+ hours to the day ?
I was wiped out at the 7.5 school day my high school had starting at 7:30 and ending just after 2:00. I went through four years of this and I finally was fine senior year but I also had virtually two free periods because my final period was me "interning" for my choral director. If nothing was needed, I finished everything or I didn't have a sectional, I would be done for the day and able to head home for the day.
I find it so hard to believe that schools are not 'tracking'. That is when students of similar learning abilities are put into the same classes, I think.
Darn, if they mix all these kids together then nobody is served well and each child is given a hurdle, perhaps a too difficult one - and the teacher is really screwed because she has to plan a bland lesson that she thinks will feed each of them a little, rather than preparing a class that will optimize the progress of each child, according to his ability.
That is just about the dumbest thing I ever heard of, IF I am right and that's what we're doing.
One of my motivations, in h.s., in studying grammar and getting it right the first time is that I would no longer have to put up with those classes and have more interesting ones, in literature classes later on.
I find it so hard to believe that schools are not 'tracking'. That is when students of similar learning abilities are put into the same classes, I think.
Darn, if they mix all these kids together then nobody is served well and each child is given a hurdle, perhaps a too difficult one - and the teacher is really screwed because she has to plan a bland lesson that she thinks will feed each of them a little, rather than preparing a class that will optimize the progress of each child, according to his ability.
That is just about the dumbest thing I ever heard of, IF I am right and that's what we're doing.
One of my motivations, in h.s., in studying grammar and getting it right the first time is that I would no longer have to put up with those classes and have more interesting ones, in literature classes later on.
Tracking as we all used to know it has been gone for 20 years. The idea is that heterogeneous grouping enhances the learning for all students. The better students will assist the slower ones. That's one reason so much emhasis is placed on group work. That's the real scandal in schools, not the supposed liberal indoctrination people always see behind the trees.
Of course, AP and Special Ed are still grouped except the CollegeBoard has been making a big deal about getting "non-traditional" students into AP classes for the last 10 years. Of course that means more money for them but we aren't allowed to talk about that.
Tracking as we all used to know it has been gone for 20 years. The idea is that heterogeneous grouping enhances the learning for all students. The better students will assist the slower ones. That's one reason so much emhasis is placed on group work. That's the real scandal in schools, not the supposed liberal indoctrination people always see behind the trees.
Of course, AP and Special Ed are still grouped except the CollegeBoard has been making a big deal about getting "non-traditional" students into AP classes for the last 10 years. Of course that means more money for them but we aren't allowed to talk about that.
So much of learning is just putting the time in, drilling. English grammar, language, science, math - no body can learn for you, you often just have to determine to spend time alone learning things.
What does a teacher do when there is one laggard in a group who nobody chooses to help - a person who is just holding the group back? Why would a slow learner want to be coupled with people who make him feel inferior?
My husband has dyslexia. We are not that young and he went to school in England before we even knew what that disorder was. He was put in slow learning classes, but somehow compensated for it and so ended up in the more advanced classes and went on to college. It's not as though students in the slower classes could not become enlightened and move upwards.
So much of learning is just putting the time in, drilling. English grammar, language, science, math - no body can learn for you, you often just have to determine to spend time alone learning things.
What does a teacher do when there is one laggard in a group who nobody chooses to help - a person who is just holding the group back? Why would a slow learner want to be coupled with people who make him feel inferior?
My husband has dyslexia. We are not that young and he went to school in England before we even knew what that disorder was. He was put in slow learning classes, but somehow compensated for it and so ended up in the more advanced classes and went on to college. It's not as though students in the slower classes could not become enlightened and move upwards.
This non tracking seems like a sad idea to me.
It doesn't work that way. There's always someone in the group who will do that kid's work so their grade doesn't suffer. I call it "The Smart Girl Who Can Type" response.
That horse left the barn a long time ago.
Dyslexia does not make a kid "slow" so he was actually misplaced (well it depends on how old you are, I had never heard of dyslexia in my teacher training in the 1970's and only found out about it when started teaching in the 1980's).
It doesn't work that way. There's always someone in the group who will do that kid's work so their grade doesn't suffer. I call it "The Smart Girl Who Can Type" response.
That horse left the barn a long time ago.
Dyslexia does not make a kid "slow" so he was actually misplaced (well it depends on how old you are, I had never heard of dyslexia in my teacher training in the 1970's and only found out about it when started teaching in the 1980's).
The group work is a killer to some and an easy A for others.
Some take on the burden of the entire group because they want a good grade.
I've seen some of the slackers seek out the smart kids to group with so they can slide.
There's no osmosis of smartness happening. There's not much give and take shared either.
And teachers are not really all that free to make changes. I see this more with high end and low end students. The middle of the road students seem to thrive off team based projects though.
When I was in high school there was no tracking, and no group work either. It seemed like the teacher just directed his or her teaching to the lowest-level student in class. Meanwhile, I wrote lots of notes to my friends or read the book I'd snuck in from home.
My kids attended a private school where they were in mixed age groups and helping each other was encouraged, but it was still not always "group work" in the same sense. It worked well, but that was just for pre-k through 4th grade and the classes were very small in the first place.
My opinion of group work has been formed from my experiences as a current college student and I think it is absolutely evil, as well as lazy on the part of the instructor/professor.
When I was in high school there was no tracking, and no group work either. It seemed like the teacher just directed his or her teaching to the lowest-level student in class. Meanwhile, I wrote lots of notes to my friends or read the book I'd snuck in from home.
My kids attended a private school where they were in mixed age groups and helping each other was encouraged, but it was still not always "group work" in the same sense. It worked well, but that was just for pre-k through 4th grade and the classes were very small in the first place.
My opinion of group work has been formed from my experiences as a current college student and I think it is absolutely evil, as well as lazy on the part of the instructor/professor.
It may well be but it has been considered "best practice" going on 20 years. At the high school level almost all the supplemental/enrichment activities are set up for groups.
It may well be but it has been considered "best practice" going on 20 years. At the high school level almost all the supplemental/enrichment activities are set up for groups.
Well I think it depends a lot on how it is used and how much of a consequence it carries on an overall grade. Perhaps for enrichment activities it can be a good thing. My personal experiences with group work as part of regular instruction and as a large chunk of a grade have been very negative.
Well I think it depends a lot on how it is used and how much of a consequence it carries on an overall grade. Perhaps for enrichment activities it can be a good thing. My personal experiences with group work as part of regular instruction and as a large chunk of a grade have been very negative.
The new evaluation tools being adopted have Group Activities as a major component of the evaluation. So you best believe that teachers will start doing them. I rarely do them simply because I happen to be the subject area expert in the classroom, not any of the students.
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