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We're not discussing saving parents money. We're discussing whether or not pulling out the top of the class is good for education. Theirs or anyone elses. I don't think it is. I do, however, see the attraction to getting college credit in high school but it should be noted that many of the better schools will not take the credit or will give credit for electives or insist you take the class anyway in spite of the credit earned leaving you paying for and taking the same number of credits in college you would have anyway. It's not always the cost savings parents envision. It's up to the school what they do with the credits if they take them at all. My school offers a ton of AP classes but students are often advised to take the class anyway in college by the college. Some colleges maintain that the AP class is not like taking the college course and students put themselves at a disadvantage if they don't retake the class in college. Others waive for elective meaning you still have to take the credits at the college just not that particular class.
I can see where these classes look good on applications and might help a student make the cut but I don't see where education is being improved by offering them over having the student actually take the college class. I've seen no evidence that students learn more or learn better in AP classes over taking college classes when they get to college. I'm discussing the value WRT education not cost savings or even college applications. I understand why we have these classes, I just don't think they accomplish anything over taking the actual class in college WRT actual learning.
It is good for THEIR education. Their purpose in going to school is not to help educate other students, it is for them to be educated and given the knowledge and skills to achieve their next goal, which for high kids is to get in a good college and be successful there. Most ambitious, high intellect students will tell you their most beneficial classes in high school to help them in future education were their AP classes.
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The benefit of AP classes is to get the kids into an Ivy League or other preferred college, which increases the chances of getting into a desired profession such as medicine. They have about the same impact as success in sports or some extracurricular activities in the community.
There's only a temporary benefit in the first semester or so of college, allowing them to coast a bit. In my case, I saw them have an advantage in chem lab classes for that first semester, they already knew many of the terms and procedures.
They simply open up more options. I'm sure there are some intrinsic benefits, but not that much - a relief of boredom for example.
If a child is ready to learn the material in an AP course when they are 14 what is the benefit to him in making him wait until he is college?
Perhaps they will learn more if the take the class when more mature. I know that many colleges that the kids go to from my school require the kids to take the class in college anyway because they don't believe the AP class teaches them enough. I've had many kids tell me that their chosen university has advised that they will do better if they actually take the class in college.
AP is fast becomming the new one upmanship. It's common enough that it's becomming almost required to get into certain schools whether they take the credit or not. I can tell you this, it causes a lot of stress for students.
We're not discussing saving parents money. We're discussing whether or not pulling out the top of the class is good for education. Theirs or anyone elses. I don't think it is. I do, however, see the attraction to getting college credit in high school but it should be noted that many of the better schools will not take the credit or will give credit for electives or insist you take the class anyway in spite of the credit earned leaving you paying for and taking the same number of credits in college you would have anyway. It's not always the cost savings parents envision. It's up to the school what they do with the credits if they take them at all. My school offers a ton of AP classes but students are often advised to take the class anyway in college by the college. Some colleges maintain that the AP class is not like taking the college course and students put themselves at a disadvantage if they don't retake the class in college. Others waive for elective meaning you still have to take the credits at the college just not that particular class.
I can see where these classes look good on applications and might help a student make the cut but I don't see where education is being improved by offering them over having the student actually take the college class. I've seen no evidence that students learn more or learn better in AP classes over taking college classes when they get to college. I'm discussing the value WRT education not cost savings or even college applications. I understand why we have these classes, I just don't think they accomplish anything over taking the actual class in college WRT actual learning.
This just isn't true. A combination of AP and dual enrollment got my youngest son 42 college credits. He could have graduated from our state flagship university's honors program in 2 years. Instead, he is using his academic scholarship money to do research, including traveling overseas. He was able to bypass all the core requirements usually taken by incoming freshmen and really focus on what interested him.
He was surrounded by serious students in high school, and really serious students in college. My middle boy, who took nothing more stringent than honors classes, will take 5 years to get his degree, and his friends are very similar. To them, college is a blast, very much like their high school experience.
Perhaps they will learn more if the take the class when more mature. I know that many colleges that the kids go to from my school require the kids to take the class in college anyway because they don't believe the AP class teaches them enough. I've had many kids tell me that their chosen university has advised that they will do better if they actually take the class in college.
AP is fast becomming the new one upmanship. It's common enough that it's becomming almost required to get into certain schools whether they take the credit or not. I can tell you this, it causes a lot of stress for students.
If it is required to get into certain schools it isn't just one upmandship is it?
Some schools do tell the kids that they will do better if they take the class over. My son didn't take anything over and he got straight As his first semester. I think that advising kids to take the class over is all about money.
One thing that the gifted child MUST learn early, and that is how to withstand boredom. This is a lesson that will serve forever. It's the one thing that the Home, not the school, must teach early.
This is an excellent point. And the boredom only increases as you progress through high school. Finding a way to challenge oneself in class (productively) is key, I found (in college at least). But in high school, by the last couple years, I was so darn bored I was forgetting to do homework!
It is good for THEIR education. Their purpose in going to school is not to help educate other students, it is for them to be educated and given the knowledge and skills to achieve their next goal, which for high kids is to get in a good college and be successful there. Most ambitious, high intellect students will tell you their most beneficial classes in high school to help them in future education were their AP classes.
But the end result is the same so your point is moot. They DO get educated.
If it is required to get into certain schools it isn't just one upmandship is it?
Some schools do tell the kids that they will do better if they take the class over. My son didn't take anything over and he got straight As his first semester. I think that advising kids to take the class over is all about money.
No, it's the new one upmanship but one upmanship becomes the norm after a while. Back when I was in school, you learned to play sports in gym class in school and picked your sport by the end of middle school. Then parents started starting their kids in sports early to give them an advantage. Now, you're at a disadvantage if you don't start early. AP classes are going the same route. They're not required yet but they will be before long because they're becomming so common. Then they'll have to come up with some other one upmanship.
I'm not sure this is good for kids. Especially since the more competitive schools don't grant credit for AP classes. Lesser schools do but not many of the good schools.
I do believe this started as one upmanship. A way to get something on an application the other kid doesn't have but as more and more kids take AP classes, it becomes the norm. Then it becomes required and something else must be added to stand out. As I watch the kids in my classes stress out over upcomming AP tests, I wonder if this is worth it. I have about 20 kids I haven't seen smile in weeks. If there is 5 minutes at the end of class, out come the flash cards. Between sports (the old one upmanship that is now required to show you're a team player), jobs (to show you're responsible) and AP classes (I guess to show you're smart), these kids are dying. On the bright side, college has been dummied down to the point they should be able to sleep through the four years after this.
This isn't about learning. It never was.
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