Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-02-2013, 09:39 AM
 
1,288 posts, read 2,914,590 times
Reputation: 777

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lior Arel View Post
This is more of a vent post, as I know there is no solution to my problem.

After 20 years, I finally started college. There were a handful of reasons I didn't go back when I graduated high school, bit I'm happy to be going back. However, I can't even pass Pre-Algebra. I failed it three times in High School and only graduated when the Summer School teacher coached me though every question, even on the final.

Time has passed, nothing has changed. My hopes are dashed. You can't get a degree without at least College Algebra. I BARELY passed the Remdial Math 1 class I tested into, and now half way through Pre-algebra and I realize its going to be a no go. I'm so disappointed. Everyone always says I'm so smart, but obviously Im not.

I think I'll just work in being as attractive and well liked as possible, since that seems to be my only strength in life.

I took Algebra Honors and Geometry Honors in high school.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-02-2013, 10:40 AM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,658,375 times
Reputation: 20851
Quote:
Originally Posted by detshen View Post
It's not like that, most of us know we have to "do math" at least for school, or we don't graduate. There are no strategies that make it doable that I know of, I was a straight A, except for math student who by 6th grade scored at the college level on yearly tests in all subjects except math, and by 8th grade I was post college, there were no measurements that high. No matter how hard I worked I could't get math, except elementary arithmetic which I'm actually great at, and do use every day in life. I was fortunate that I had teachers who were willing to work with me regularly, and saw me give it everything I had to the point that my other grades were declining, they finally passed me with Ds that I probably didn't deserve, I couldn't even learn enough to know if I deserved to pass, or not.
How could you be college level at "everything" except math? Seriously, high school bio, chem and physics all require algebra, geometry and even some trig.

Quote:
It's horrible when you try everything, and work hours every day, and you still can't learn it. My verbal scores were extremely high, but my math was so basic the scores average out, and the Ds, plus the decline due to trying to pass the high math requirement of my high school hurt my GPA. My family had little money, and my math problems had me feeling stupid, and not really college material anyway. I ended up going to a local college, and was fortunate to have professors who recognized, and then helped me recognize that I was far from stupid and could become very successful, and go on to grad school with my strengths.

It definitely feels like a real disability to me, and no one had any strategies for me to work with. For me it was incurable, like asking someone who was almost blind to read a page of a book, maybe they could pull out a few words with immense struggle, and putting together the little bit they could see, but they could never actually read the page.

I completely understand the OP, even bringing this up has me feeling stupid again.
Again, disability does not mean impossibility. Kids with severe dyslexia learn to read. I have had students with dycalculia who have learned higher math including enough calculus to major in Physics.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-02-2013, 11:02 AM
 
Location: near bears but at least no snakes
26,646 posts, read 28,501,980 times
Reputation: 50463
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
How could you be college level at "everything" except math? Seriously, high school bio, chem and physics all require algebra, geometry and even some trig.

Again, disability does not mean impossibility. Kids with severe dyslexia learn to read. I have had students with dycalculia who have learned higher math including enough calculus to major in Physics.
I was college level at everything too, except Algebra. I had straight A's in Latin, English, History, Biology. When I was in high school we didn't need algebra to do biology. We only had to take one science in high school and that's why I took biology.

I don't think of geometry as being math--not to me. I got straight A's in geometry, plane geometry. In the last part, it got turned into that other kind of geometry (?) and I was a blank. Plane geometry was words and pictures--easy peasy.

In college I got around my math stupidity by taking statistics, which, again, was easy because you just memorized formulas and plugged the numbers in. What killed me was the adding, subtracting, multiplying and dividing. This was before calculators. I would always get 50% credit for having the right formula and zero for adding (etc.) wrong.

I guess there are different kinds of math disability. I'm an idiot at adding/subtracting and algebra but I don't understand how even a KID couldn't do simple plane geometry when all you do is read what it says and look at pictures!!! Triangles, circles, trapezoids. I guess that horrible kind of geometry was solid geometry.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-02-2013, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Paradise
3,663 posts, read 5,655,201 times
Reputation: 4865
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post

I don't think of geometry as being math--not to me. I got straight A's in geometry, plane geometry. In the last part, it got turned into that other kind of geometry (?) and I was a blank. Plane geometry was words and pictures--easy peasy.
You know that this is not true, right?

Quote:
In college I got around my math stupidity by taking statistics, which, again, was easy because you just memorized formulas and plugged the numbers in. What killed me was the adding, subtracting, multiplying and dividing. This was before calculators. I would always get 50% credit for having the right formula and zero for adding (etc.) wrong.
This makes me take notice. You and I are from the same era. If you can memorize formulas and apply them, then you don't have any math disability that I know of. I wish you were close to me. I would love to work with you to see exactly where the obstacle is coming from.

Quote:
I guess there are different kinds of math disability. I'm an idiot at adding/subtracting and algebra but I don't understand how even a KID couldn't do simple plane geometry when all you do is read what it says and look at pictures!!! Triangles, circles, trapezoids. I guess that horrible kind of geometry was solid geometry.
I still think you are selling yourself short. I feel bad that so many think that they are beyond help with this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-02-2013, 11:17 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,086 posts, read 107,163,173 times
Reputation: 115880
Why are colleges requiring an algebra course for graduation? Why did they decide this is important? Why is it considered a basic skill? Most people will never use algebra in their lives. Why was this requirement added to the college curriculum? Does anyone know?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-02-2013, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Paradise
3,663 posts, read 5,655,201 times
Reputation: 4865
You don't need anthropology for basic skills either. It's part of being a well-rounded person. Colleges require a certain amount of "-ology" credits because it wants to graduate well-rounded people. Algebra teaches important thinking and problem solving skills.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-02-2013, 11:50 AM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,799,903 times
Reputation: 17472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Why are colleges requiring an algebra course for graduation? Why did they decide this is important? Why is it considered a basic skill? Most people will never use algebra in their lives. Why was this requirement added to the college curriculum? Does anyone know?
In order to get INTO university in 1962 when I went you needed at least three years of high school math including Algebra I, Geometry and Algebra II and many colleges wanted 4 years of high school math. However, lots of kids did not go to university, but went to community colleges and others went to jobs right out of high school and never went to college at all.

Mathematics plays an especially important role in achieving college readiness. Colleges look for higher-level courses when reviewing high school transcripts, so early proficiency in Algebra can be seen as a gateway to success in high-school and for college readiness. In fact, students who complete Algebra II are more than twice as likely to graduate from college compared to students with less mathematical preparation.

High School Preparation in Math - A Chart of High School Preparation in Math Requirements for College Admissions

Quote:
Very few colleges have a definite requirement of calculus or four years of math. A college doesn't want to be in a position where they have to reject an otherwise well-qualified applicant because of a lack of calculus.
That said, take the "strongly recommended" guidelines seriously. For most colleges, your high school record is the single most important component of your application. It should show you've taken the most challenging courses possible, and your success in upper-level math courses is a great indicator that you can succeed in college.
High School Course Requirements for College Admissions - Learn What Core Courses You Need to Get into College
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-02-2013, 11:58 AM
 
6,790 posts, read 8,176,147 times
Reputation: 6998
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
How could you be college level at "everything" except math? Seriously, high school bio, chem and physics all require algebra, geometry and even some trig.



Again, disability does not mean impossibility. Kids with severe dyslexia learn to read. I have had students with dycalculia who have learned higher math including enough calculus to major in Physics.
I took these tests in grade school, 1st through 8th grades, they measured underlying intelligence and capabilities, a 6th grader can't be tested on specifics of chemistry, and there was no math in my bio courses which I always excelled at. I did okay in geometry, but there were parts of it I didn't understand, the teacher was almost retired, barely taught us anything, and graded on a curve, so I didn't really learn it.

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying it clearly was impossible for me 20 years ago, I was obviously an intelligent person in every other way, but no matter how much work I put into it I could not do the algebra, I never stopped trying, I worked as hard as anyone could have, and still a D- I probably didn't deserve. Maybe the right teacher could have helped. Maybe someone has developed ways I could learn it as they have with dyslexia, they weren't offered to me.

20 years ago math teachers thought I was just dumb until counselors got involved and they could see how high performing I was in every other way, I still could get low As high Bs in everything else even though I was spending almost almost every hour I had on algebra, and other classes only got enough time to get basic homework done. When I was in grade school and high school even dyslexia was barely recognized, math disabilities were never discussed, people were just stupid, or smart.

That stupid feeling destroyed me, I'm mostly over it, but this thread puts me right back there, it upsets me looking back on it wondering what could have been, especially with scholarships if the math hadn't hurt my overall assessments. Fortunately, I found professors at my "low" level college who recognized how gifted I was in other areas, they helped me see my potential and I went on with schooling, and was always in the top one or two of my classes, and now am very successful in a career I love. It upsets that there are students like me who never find those professors and give up on school and careers because they think they are stupid.

I don't think people who get math understand how truly difficult this is, it seems like basic intelligence to them, but it isn't to us, we can do everything else, I've very capable of abstract thinking even though people say that's not possible if I can't do algebra, to me that's absurd. I also have a problem with flipping numbers, which often gave me wrong answers even in basic math, I was able to deal with that by going back and underlining problems with my hands or paper, but that couldn't solve my bigger math problems.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-02-2013, 12:40 PM
 
6,790 posts, read 8,176,147 times
Reputation: 6998
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
In order to get INTO university in 1962 when I went you needed at least three years of high school math including Algebra I, Geometry and Algebra II and many colleges wanted 4 years of high school math. However, lots of kids did not go to university, but went to community colleges and others went to jobs right out of high school and never went to college at all.

Mathematics plays an especially important role in achieving college readiness. Colleges look for higher-level courses when reviewing high school transcripts, so early proficiency in Algebra can be seen as a gateway to success in high-school and for college readiness. In fact, students who complete Algebra II are more than twice as likely to graduate from college compared to students with less mathematical preparation.

High School Preparation in Math - A Chart of High School Preparation in Math Requirements for College Admissions



High School Course Requirements for College Admissions - Learn What Core Courses You Need to Get into College
IMO, that's probably because colleges require math courses so those who can't pass may end up dropping out. It doesn't mean algebra is the only way one can develop the intelligence and skills needed for every other aspect of college study. I was at the top of every other class, my teachers loved me, but I never learned algebra. If this one class is holding so many people back, something is wrong.

It's not laziness, myself, and many others like me put the work in to the detriment of everything else, but still barely, or don't pass. It's not calculators, I never used one in grade or high school, I can do any number of math problems in my head. I can always figure out anything I need to in my life. It's not because we don't care, I cared about my grades, I learned many things that had no life applications, I'd love to learn math, I have always enjoyed learning for it's own sake. I study many things just for fun.

My profession doesn't require solving algebra problems, or any other math problems, I can manage the numbers on business side. It is a highly skilled profession, requiring a tremendous amount of thought, and pulling information from past and new sources, and putting idea together using abstract and critical thinking, I always have to look at what works and what doesn't, and make small and large changes on a constant basis. I can do all of that very well, but I could never actually learn algebra. Why? It's either the subject itself, or the teaching of it. It could be the teaching of it, when I googled algebra, started reading about it, and doing some of the simple problems it made more sense than it ever has. There was a point where I could feel myself falling apart, maybe that is because of how I was taught this subject.

This needs to be looked at if otherwise intelligent, capable students aren't able to finish a college degree because of 1-2 math courses. That's a real issue if we are losing bright people who were simply never meant to work in a technical, or math field, but could be excelling in other areas. It's ridiculous to say we should just do things as we always have if it's not working for so many intelligent people. If a student has straight As, but can't pass math after many tries, somethings wrong. Maybe that's just me being stupid since I couldn't possibly have any intelligence according to algebra obsessives.

If someone can point me to good method, or online study by someone with new ideas on teaching math to those who struggle, I'll do it. I'll take a course and see what happens, I would gladly try to deal with my math illiteracy if it could help even one struggling student figure out how to pass a course that's holding them back. No one deserves to feel stupid because of one subject, that was so horrible for me, and could have ruined my life if not for some very caring professors forcing me to realize I was never stupid.

Last edited by detshen; 06-02-2013 at 12:51 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-02-2013, 02:44 PM
 
3,281 posts, read 6,255,020 times
Reputation: 2416
I don't think that everyone should have to complete College Algebra to get a degree. However I do think that having some level of numerical understanding is an important part of a well-rounded education and luckily there are a number of colleges that maintain this requirement while giving students choices about how to reach that minimum understanding.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top