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Old 07-11-2013, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,044 posts, read 13,862,607 times
Reputation: 15839

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
There is little I can do to teach a student chemistry or physics if they don't come to me with the prerequisite math and science backgrounds and they can't read the book.

We can chant "STEM, STEM, STEM" all we want but until we prepare more kids for STEM, nothing changes...

A prerequisite for teaching is that students want to learn. Here in Las Vegas, it is not uncommon for parents to encourage their sons to drop out of high school & go to work as a parking valet at any of the resorts. $50K/year cash tips is pretty good when you're 17.
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Old 07-12-2013, 05:02 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,530,712 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
A prerequisite for teaching is that students want to learn. Here in Las Vegas, it is not uncommon for parents to encourage their sons to drop out of high school & go to work as a parking valet at any of the resorts. $50K/year cash tips is pretty good when you're 17.
Heck, I'd take that now.
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Old 07-12-2013, 05:51 AM
 
Location: San Marcos, TX
2,569 posts, read 7,741,778 times
Reputation: 4059
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
Probably because every other job posted for even support-level staffing right now is demanding a degree as weed-out criteria.
Yes, that and the fact that many programs/career paths that formerly only required vocational training or a two year degree are now insistent upon applicants having a four year degree. Many of those that "officially" don't' require the four year degree are still favoring those that have obtained it vs those that just completed a program at the certificate level or Associate's level.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:19 AM
 
6,129 posts, read 6,808,452 times
Reputation: 10821
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoulJourn View Post
Realistically, every job that is available can not be in the STEM fields.
Basically. I don't even understand how this is a question. LOL

But for those who need data:

May 2012 National Occupational Employment and Wage Estimates

Now of course, most of the high paying jobs will be doctors on engineers. But there are also occupations like:

Lawyers
Marketing Managers
Advertising, Marketing, Promotions, Public Relations, and Sales Managers
Human Resources Managers
Public Relations and Fundraising Managers
Advertising and Promotions Managers
Political Scientists
Training and Development Managers

Cracking 100K on this list.

If you scroll down a little into the 90K range, you start seeing Art Directors, Higher Ed administrators, K-12 Administrators, Producers & Directors, etc on the list.

The lesson: whatever you do, it will pay pretty well as you move up to a management level.

And no, they don't all require MBAs.

I swear, once again, this topic just makes me tired. LOL. People should follow their talents and bust their butts to excel at whatever they choose. Its fine to choose a STEM field or business, but your life is not automatically over if you don't. Just do you and stop belittling everyone else. And whatever you choose plan ahead, don't just go to class and think a job will fall into your lap.
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Old 07-12-2013, 10:01 AM
 
12,101 posts, read 17,088,979 times
Reputation: 15771
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinawina View Post
Basically. I don't even understand how this is a question. LOL

But for those who need data:

May 2012 National Occupational Employment and Wage Estimates

Now of course, most of the high paying jobs will be doctors on engineers. But there are also occupations like:

Lawyers
Marketing Managers
Advertising, Marketing, Promotions, Public Relations, and Sales Managers
Human Resources Managers
Public Relations and Fundraising Managers
Advertising and Promotions Managers
Political Scientists
Training and Development Managers

Cracking 100K on this list.

If you scroll down a little into the 90K range, you start seeing Art Directors, Higher Ed administrators, K-12 Administrators, Producers & Directors, etc on the list.

The lesson: whatever you do, it will pay pretty well as you move up to a management level.

And no, they don't all require MBAs.

I swear, once again, this topic just makes me tired. LOL. People should follow their talents and bust their butts to excel at whatever they choose. Its fine to choose a STEM field or business, but your life is not automatically over if you don't. Just do you and stop belittling everyone else. And whatever you choose plan ahead, don't just go to class and think a job will fall into your lap.
The key is ... IF you can move up into management. If you cannot, then what can you do with just a bachelors in say English? It's quite unclear.

Of course, this is really not much different for STEM too? What are you going to do with just a bachelors in Chemistry or Biology? Not much more. Maybe be a lab tech for the next 30 years?
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Old 07-12-2013, 04:12 PM
 
Location: somewhere flat
1,373 posts, read 1,654,314 times
Reputation: 4118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinawina View Post
Basically. I don't even understand how this is a question. LOL

But for those who need data:

May 2012 National Occupational Employment and Wage Estimates

Now of course, most of the high paying jobs will be doctors on engineers. But there are also occupations like:

Lawyers
Marketing Managers
Advertising, Marketing, Promotions, Public Relations, and Sales Managers
Human Resources Managers
Public Relations and Fundraising Managers
Advertising and Promotions Managers
Political Scientists
Training and Development Managers

Cracking 100K on this list.

If you scroll down a little into the 90K range, you start seeing Art Directors, Higher Ed administrators, K-12 Administrators, Producers & Directors, etc on the list.

The lesson: whatever you do, it will pay pretty well as you move up to a management level.

And no, they don't all require MBAs.

I swear, once again, this topic just makes me tired. LOL. People should follow their talents and bust their butts to excel at whatever they choose. Its fine to choose a STEM field or business, but your life is not automatically over if you don't. Just do you and stop belittling everyone else. And whatever you choose plan ahead, don't just go to class and think a job will fall into your lap.


Makes me tired too. Do what you do well. Everyone is not talented in the same way. Forcing square pegs into round holes never works.
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Old 07-12-2013, 04:25 PM
 
Location: The beautiful Garden State
2,734 posts, read 4,149,709 times
Reputation: 3671
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
While LA majors may not be less intelligent, less disciplined, etc. the average liberal arts program is not going to be as rigorous as the average STEM one. Even look at the hardest ones, philosophy (and subfields might as well be a hard science, formal logic for one) maybe history (?), compared to physics, and engineering. It isn't even close.
That's not eve true. My literature and journalism professors were much harder graders than math and science because in math and science there is usually only one correct answer, whereas in literature if a professor doesn't agree with your analysis of a poem they might give you a bad grade.

I noticed that when I wrote term papers for my science classes I almost always received an A. That same paper would have received a C from an English professor.
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Old 07-12-2013, 04:39 PM
 
Location: The beautiful Garden State
2,734 posts, read 4,149,709 times
Reputation: 3671
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Well that is a gross generalization that doesn't apply to almost any STEM field.

Do you really think you can be an astrophysicist with a liberal arts degree as long as you have "networked"?

That you can be an electrical engineer with a degree in marketing if your "people skills" are good?
That is not what that poster said
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Old 07-13-2013, 06:05 AM
 
Location: Richmond, VA
5,047 posts, read 6,346,266 times
Reputation: 7204
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewJerseyMemories View Post
That's not eve true. My literature and journalism professors were much harder graders than math and science because in math and science there is usually only one correct answer, whereas in literature if a professor doesn't agree with your analysis of a poem they might give you a bad grade.

I noticed that when I wrote term papers for my science classes I almost always received an A. That same paper would have received a C from an English professor.
Perhaps your professors were. But in the aggregate, demonstrably not true:

http://www.gradeinflation.com/tcr2010grading.pdf

If you have research showing otherwise, I would love to see it. This also jibes with what I personally saw working in a university with visibility of many majors/grades: students tended to select humanities in large numbers because they felt the grades were higher.
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Old 07-13-2013, 08:26 AM
 
12,101 posts, read 17,088,979 times
Reputation: 15771
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Well that is a gross generalization that doesn't apply to almost any STEM field.

Do you really think you can be an astrophysicist with a liberal arts degree as long as you have "networked"?

That you can be an electrical engineer with a degree in marketing if your "people skills" are good?
You can't.

But if your butt-kiss skills and charisma are superb, you can rise through the business ranks of a tech or engineering company, and eventually become head, where you'll be making 50 times more than one of us engineers.
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