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What does that have to do with graduation being required? So they work 67 years??? You haven't said why they need to graduate in order to do that. So what if they CAN graduate. Why do they NEED to graduate?
I think there is a certain percentage of students who would be better served with on the job training after a certain point, say 10th grade. I think the classroom environment for the remaining students would be improved by sending these kids to apprentice programs. IMO, this would be a win-win.
I am quite shocked to see a teacher post that. If you are going to work for the next 50 years or so, do you think you'll want to do the same job forever? How many of us have? And how many of us decided at 16 or so what we were going to do for forever? Computers were pretty much a gleam in someone's eye when my husband was 16; he now works with computers in telecom, a word we never heard back in the 60s. "They" (like that term, LOL) NEED to graduate so they can pursue other options as time goes on.
The statistics bear out, time and time again, that people with more education make more money. Those w/o a HS diploma make the least of all and have the highest unemployment rates. You want to relegate a segment of society to the bottom rungs forever?
Those of you with kids, would you want your kids to leave HS before graduation? If you say "no", then you shouldn't want it for someone else's kids either.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 07-22-2013 at 08:38 AM..
Only in the US would the idea of ending public education fall in the category of a serious idea. Human capital? Nah, screw that! Furthering inequities? Heck yes!
As ignorant as we already are, that's just the thing to add to it. I realize any question (almost) can be asked, but, I often wish some of them would simply be passed and not given credence. They would fade so far into the past they would eventually disappear and could no longer be brought to light. I've heard people say any question is worth asking, but, that's not true. I'm not saying it needs to be the epitome of esoterica. Surely people know the difference. We once heard my father-in-law tell his wife she didn't have the sense G-d gave a rabbit. She isn't alone. And people make it political. Hahahahahahahahah.
I am quite shocked to see a teacher post that. If you are going to work for the next 50 years or so, do you think you'll want to do the same job forever? How many of us have? And how many of us decided at 16 or so what we were going to do for forever? Computers were pretty much a gleam in someone's eye when my husband was 16; he now works with computers in telecom, a word we never heard back in the 60s. "They" (like that term, LOL) NEED to graduate so they can pursue other options as time goes on.
The statistics bear out, time and time again, that people with more education make more money. Those w/o a HS diploma make the least of all and have the highest unemployment rates. You want to relegate a segment of society to the bottom rungs forever?
Those of you with kids, would you want your kids to leave HS before graduation? If you say "no", then you shouldn't want it for someone else's kids either.
But what does that high school diploma prepare our person who is better suited for an apprenticeship for that will benefit them? Someone who is best suited for an apprenticeship is likely to be someone who always is best suited for learning on the job. My dad was like this. He dropped out of school in the 6th grade to support his family and learned skills that allowed him to make a living. He retrained himself many times over. He was good with his hands and figuring things out. A high school diploma would have done nothing for him.
I don't know why you're shocked to see a teacher say that not everyone is cut out for school. It's common knowledge that not everyone benefits from a book education. I don't think we should force square pegs into round holes.
I would have no issue with my kids leaving school without a HS diploma IF they were placed into a career training apprenticeship instead. I would not want to see them drop out without career training. There are lots of careers that do not require a HS diploma, which in reality is just a piece of paper these days. All it really means is you stayed in school long enough to get one as kids are pushed through. On the job training would have a lot more meaning for many students.
And the reason those without a HS diploma make the least is that few of them find their way into career training programs. No training/skills and no diploma is a death sentence. I'm saying replace the diploma with career training for those who are not academically inclined.
But what does that high school diploma prepare our person who is better suited for an apprenticeship for that will benefit them? Someone who is best suited for an apprenticeship is likely to be someone who always is best suited for learning on the job. My dad was like this. He dropped out of school in the 6th grade to support his family and learned skills that allowed him to make a living. He retrained himself many times over. He was good with his hands and figuring things out. A high school diploma would have done nothing for him.
I don't know why you're shocked to see a teacher say that not everyone is cut out for school. It's common knowledge that not everyone benefits from a book education. I don't think we should force square pegs into round holes.
I would have no issue with my kids leaving school without a HS diploma IF they were placed into a career training apprenticeship instead. I would not want to see them drop out without career training. There are lots of careers that do not require a HS diploma, which in reality is just a piece of paper these days. All it really means is you stayed in school long enough to get one as kids are pushed through. On the job training would have a lot more meaning for many students.
And the reason those without a HS diploma make the least is that few of them find their way into career training programs. No training/skills and no diploma is a death sentence. I'm saying replace the diploma with career training for those who are not academically inclined.
That's usually because you have to have a HS diploma to access these programs, or be in a vo-tech school where you get a HS diploma simultaneously. I remain deeply shocked that a teacher would recommend that a kid not finish high school. What kind of "career" do you have in mind that would NOT require a HS diploma? You know, one you could do for the next 50 years.
That's usually because you have to have a HS diploma to access these programs, or be in a vo-tech school where you get a HS diploma simultaneously. I remain deeply shocked that a teacher would recommend that a kid not finish high school. What kind of "career" do you have in mind that would NOT require a HS diploma? You know, one you could do for the next 50 years.
Did you ever hear of things like construction work? Yard care? Paving? Anything where all you have to do is what the boss tells you? It's called 'shovel work'. It pays a salary. Someone has to clean out drains and trim trees. If all you are able to do is learn how to flip and tell a hamburger when it's done, or wash dishes, you don't need to spend extra time in high school.
Or Perhaps, you are one of those lucky, unusual people that have never had contact with someone that is just a little below average IQ.
We have to admit that for there to be an AVERAGE IQ level, there must be those that test below it. These people need to learn things beside the usual high school program. We haven't been doing well for those people. Not everyone needs college prep courses.
I still wonder why I took things like Latin, Art Appreciation, and a couple of others that I dumbed through.
Did you ever hear of things like construction work? Yard care? Paving? Anything where all you have to do is what the boss tells you? It's called 'shovel work'. It pays a salary. Someone has to clean out drains and trim trees. If all you are able to do is learn how to flip and tell a hamburger when it's done, or wash dishes, you don't need to spend extra time in high school.
Or Perhaps, you are one of those lucky, unusual people that have never had contact with someone that is just a little below average IQ.
We have to admit that for there to be an AVERAGE IQ level, there must be those that test below it. These people need to learn things beside the usual high school program. We haven't been doing well for those people. Not everyone needs college prep courses.
I still wonder why I took things like Latin, Art Appreciation, and a couple of others that I dumbed through.
Yeah, you got it. I have never done, nor hired anyone else to do, any of those things for pay. If you look at the required high school curriculum, excluding SPED, anyone can do it.
I never said everyone needs to take college prep courses. But I will stand by what i said that everyone needs a high school diploma.
Here is the course description catalog at my kids' high school. Play around with it. You will see that many courses can fulfill the graduation requirements. Home
That's usually because you have to have a HS diploma to access these programs, or be in a vo-tech school where you get a HS diploma simultaneously. I remain deeply shocked that a teacher would recommend that a kid not finish high school. What kind of "career" do you have in mind that would NOT require a HS diploma? You know, one you could do for the next 50 years.
Why would I recommend something that will do them no good?
Careers that do not require an education:
Construction....plumbing...mechanic...garbage collector (doesn't pay bad and boy do we need them around)...sanitation worker...road paving...lawn care (you can be self employed here)...snow removal...stock boy (dss#2 worked his way up to management in the grocery chain he works for without a HS diploma)...merchandizing (setting up store displays for new products)....delivery driver...truck driver (though this one requires going to driving school)...
There is a long list of jobs that do not require anything beyond a 10th grade education.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 07-22-2013 at 12:07 PM..
Did you ever hear of things like construction work? Yard care? Paving? Anything where all you have to do is what the boss tells you? It's called 'shovel work'. It pays a salary. Someone has to clean out drains and trim trees. If all you are able to do is learn how to flip and tell a hamburger when it's done, or wash dishes, you don't need to spend extra time in high school.
Or Perhaps, you are one of those lucky, unusual people that have never had contact with someone that is just a little below average IQ.
We have to admit that for there to be an AVERAGE IQ level, there must be those that test below it. These people need to learn things beside the usual high school program. We haven't been doing well for those people. Not everyone needs college prep courses.
I still wonder why I took things like Latin, Art Appreciation, and a couple of others that I dumbed through.
The teachers were recently talking about an ex student in the teacher's lounge. From what they said kid was hell on wheels in high school and ended up not graduating. Why were they talking about him? He went into lawn care and now owns his own landscaping/lawn care business and is now worth a small fortune. Not cut out for school doesn't mean not smart enough to make it in life.
Dss is in construction and works with a lot of men who did not finish high school. I think women have a tougher time without an education. There are a lot of physical labor jobs that men can do that pay well. Women have fewer options.
Why would I recommend something that will do them no good?
Careers that do not require an education:
Construction....plumbing...mechanic...garbage collector (doesn't pay bad and boy do we need them around)...sanitation worker...road paving...lawn care (you can be self employed here)...snow removal...stock boy (dss#2 worked his way up to management in the grocery chain he works for without a HS diploma)...merchandizing (setting up store displays for new products)....delivery driver...truck driver (though this one requires going to driving school)...
There is a long list of jobs that do not require anything beyond a 10th grade education.
How can a high school diploma do someone "no good"? Look at these stats:
Good grief!
Tell me again it's useless to get a HS diploma. Who is going to get promoted? Self employed in lawn care? Sure. Let's talk about famous people who didn't graduate from high school, just like we hear about Bill Gates all the time when we talk about college! These people are the exceptions!
How can a high school diploma do someone "no good"?
Good grief!
Tell me again it's useless to get a HS diploma. Who is going to get promoted? Self employed in lawn care? Sure. Let's talk about famous people who didn't graduate from high school, just like we hear about Bill Gates all the time when we talk about college! These people are the exceptions!
I am beginning to be concerned about the IQ level of some of our posters. THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT TOO BRIGHT. Understand????? They need a program that trains them to earn a living now. Not when they are old enough to draw welfare. It takes time to train these people. Pretending that everyone needs a high school diploma in order to do menial tasks is dumb, dumb, dumb.
Let me tell you about a boy I know. He's 20 now and just starting to earn a paycheck. He wasn't smart. He got passed along until he made it. Nice kid, but no future. He couldn't even manage to fill out application forms. He just couldn't figure out HOW TO READ. He is learning how to string fence wire. Now, Did he NEED a HS diploma to do this? Or could he have started learning something of use earlier?
No, he won't get promoted. He'll be at the bottom of the pile all his life. Nice kid. But he's like a lot of others that we aren't training correctly.
We need to provide for ALL our people. Not just the above average ones.
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to see a teacher post that. If you are going to work for the next 50 years or so, do you think you'll want to do the same job forever? How many of us have? And how many of us decided at 16 or so what we were going to do for forever? Computers were pretty much a gleam in someone's eye when my husband was 16; he now works with computers in telecom, a word we never heard back in the 60s. "They" (like that term, LOL) NEED to graduate so they can pursue other options as time goes on.
