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Old 07-21-2013, 01:01 PM
 
19,045 posts, read 25,132,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
Background checks won't stop a nasty, snarly parent who might hurt your child's feeling or one who gives your child the wrong information from being in the class, you just trust the teacher to see that doesn't happen. You use that teacher as a de facto parent in that sense. A rule that a parent without a background check can't be alone with a child should be enough in most cases to counter the argument you have.
I can't imagine that happening at all...independent of the background check issue. Why would that occur?

Quote:
Background checks, if required, are also required for those working with high school students. Truthfully, if you stop to think about it, they are at more at risk of being harmed by an adult volunteer than a 1st grader.
I don't see what the big deal is with it. It's certainly not the end all be all preventative measure. It's just one small thing that could possibly help a one in a 100 situation. That's all. Let's use the few resources we have available. To be clear, as I initially stated, I don't think this is ideal across the board. For needy schools they shouldn't make parents jump through hoops to help. And as we've seen in this thread it does appear to vary district to district, maybe state by state. That's a good thing. It provides choice for parents.
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Old 07-21-2013, 01:05 PM
 
19,045 posts, read 25,132,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
A driver makes some sense to me, as does the opportunity to be alone with a student. Every single classroom volunteer - no.
Maybe it's not allowed anymore, but when I was a girl we went to the restrooms by ourselves. Raise your hand, off you go. You walk the halls alone, go to bathroom alone, and back. There are opportunities to be alone with a kid in a school during the day. Not saying anything ever comes of it, of course, but just bringing the point across.
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Old 07-21-2013, 01:05 PM
 
Location: On a Slow-Sinking Granite Rock Up North
3,638 posts, read 6,142,021 times
Reputation: 2677
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
LOL! I knew this was only about your husband. The reality is rapists have a specific age group they target. So if Mr. X only raped older women than using YOUR reasoning he should be allowed to read to kindergartners.

What if his wife said he was railroaded and didn't actually rape anyone "per se"?

Please answer the question this time.

Wow. You'll go to extremes to prove a point won't you?

How do you feel about misdemeanors?

What about the child molesters who have molested for decades, continue to molest, and have never been caught?

What about the respectable volunteer who dons a suit and tie Monday - Friday but smokes weed on the weekend like another one has a beer?

What about a person who's visiting the state with a legal item in his pocket, but finds out later that the item is illegal in the state he's visiting?

What about...what about...what about...

I spent many years volunteering and working at my kids' school. I was background checked and finger printed at my own expense. I have no issue with background checks (in fact I think they're good) but I think a little common sense should be applied.

When you do something that's considered a felony, then yes, you've blown it, but when it's a misdemeanor drug charge decades ago because you went through a "stupid a$$" phase in your youth, maybe you'd have something to offer a middle school kid who's fascinated with drugs and considering their use. It's sad that we slam the door on people who may be able to reach kids who otherwise are unreachable just because we want to blanket all situations instead of looking at individual ones.

As an aside: I volunteered right along side people I knew were creeps because I work in a place where I'm privy to information about many of the "fine, upstanding citizens" who happen to also be spouse beaters, closet pill heads, or other issues with substance abuse. Those are the ones who bothered me most. At least with a misdemeanor conviction on a background check I know what they were charged with.
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Old 07-21-2013, 01:08 PM
 
13,225 posts, read 9,835,922 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn View Post
I can't imagine that happening at all...independent of the background check issue. Why would that occur?

I don't see what the big deal is with it. It's certainly not the end all be all preventative measure. It's just one small thing that could possibly help a one in a 100 situation. That's all. Let's use the few resources we have available. To be clear, as I initially stated, I don't think this is ideal across the board. For needy schools they shouldn't make parents jump through hoops to help. And as we've seen in this thread it does appear to vary district to district, maybe state by state. That's a good thing. It provides choice for parents.
Yes, I agree - struggling schools making parents pay 165 bucks that they don't have is not helpful, so a bit of discretion and common sense about the actual risk a parent poses in different situations goes a long way.

And it does feel personal - having to get fingerprinted by the police because you want to help out in a classroom feels pretty personal to me.
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Old 07-21-2013, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Denver 'burbs
24,012 posts, read 28,366,729 times
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I'm sorry. In my opinion feeling a background check is needed for everyone your child might possibly pass in the hallway is not going to stop anything. At some point, if a child is old enough to be walking to the restroom by themselves, he should be aware of how to make a scene if anyone is pulling them somewhere they don't want to be. At this age, they are presumably using public restrooms without mom or dad if the need arises. I truly understand wanting to protect your child against every possible thing. Especially as a very new parent. Really I do. But the truth is you can't. And it's a difficult thing for us parents to accept sometimes. Sometimes the act of overprotecting becomes a bigger (although different) risk than that which we seek to protect from..but that's another issue.

Anyway, we're going to have to agree to disagree.
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Old 07-21-2013, 01:19 PM
 
19,045 posts, read 25,132,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitkatbar View Post

If you feel daycare providers, teachers and coaches should have to pass background checks to be around kids (which I agree with), are classroom volunteers that much different? You feel there is a false sense of security in volunteers being "cleared." I agree. Most molesters are family members or other people allowed access to a child in the home. Of course, no one wants to consider their husband, older child or brother as the culprit. But I also feel there is a false security in thinking just because there happens to be a teacher or other kids in the room, nothing can happen. As hard as teachers work to monitor the classroom, they cannot have their eyes on 25 different kids all at the same time. If they need to glance down at a math sheet for a few seconds to see the problem a student is struggling with, how long do you think it takes for a volunteer to sneak a kid out into the hallway? If it's a person with bad intentions, it's quite possible to find a way to make that happen. The volunteer walks from the office through the halls to the classroom, passing kids who are walking alone on their way to the bathroom. There is opportunity there, which is why the school needs to be very careful about who is allowed in.

Performing a check on adults being given access to other people's children is not a perfect solution. There is no perfect solution. But it's a reasonable precautionary measure to reduce risk.
Yes, I was thinking along similar lines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus View Post
Yes, I agree - struggling schools making parents pay 165 bucks that they don't have is not helpful, so a bit of discretion and common sense about the actual risk a parent poses in different situations goes a long way.

And it does feel personal - having to get fingerprinted by the police because you want to help out in a classroom feels pretty personal to me.
I can see that, but if you run into this situation it's probably best not to take it personal. A school could have had a past incident that made them implement the policy. Who knows.
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Old 07-21-2013, 01:21 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,792,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitkatbar View Post
And probably none of them are predators. And the school gets this. But if someone with bad intentions wanted to, they could gain access to kids through having access to the school. Kids have to walk to the bathroom alone once they're past kindergarten and have in-classroom bathrooms. A predator could just as easily be on their way to the workroom and encounter a kid alone in the hall.

Nothing removes all risk. Background checks, I feel, reduce the risk.
Kids don't generally walk to the bathrooms alone in elementary school or middle school here. They go with the class and if they have to go in between, usually two kids are sent together.
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Old 07-21-2013, 01:27 PM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,103 posts, read 16,048,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn View Post
I can't imagine that happening at all...independent of the background check issue. Why would that occur?
It wouldn't, if it did the teacher would stop it and that's the point.
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Old 07-21-2013, 03:02 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,654,830 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus View Post
Yes, you are correct, thanks for giving the right info.

You'd think that people who find it "vitally important" for parents to pass the same background checks as staff would actually have some knowledge of what that entails.
Right because I have no idea what happens in the school I teach in

It has happened on two trips I chaperoned (though not for my class) where a parent has offered to chaperone students and we were then told they were not allowed to.
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Old 07-21-2013, 03:03 PM
 
2,098 posts, read 2,486,460 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
I'm sorry. In my opinion feeling a background check is needed for everyone your child might possibly pass in the hallway is not going to stop anything.
At our school, everyone passes through the main office. Your driver's license is scanned and quickly verified that way. Not saying everyone should be fingerprinted, or have an extensive check done as long as they're not going to work with kids one on one, but anyone who comes onto school property does, IMHO, need to at least pass that most basic level of clearance.

Quote:
Kids don't generally walk to the bathrooms alone in elementary school or middle school here. They go with the class and if they have to go in between, usually two kids are sent together.
Completely different here. Only one child is allowed to leave the room at a time, so they are never in pairs.

Quote:
It wouldn't, if it did the teacher would stop it and that's the point.
Some seem to have an overly ambitious view of what the teacher is capable of doing and noticing in a situation with 25 kids in a room. Teachers work very hard to be attentive and see what's going on, but their eyes cannot be focused in 25 spots at one time. It's a reason it's important anyone coming near children have at least a cursory check performed.
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