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Old 10-28-2013, 08:05 AM
 
Location: USA
7,776 posts, read 12,479,052 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
LOL That was a test! The OP was supposed to catch that!
Why are your pants on fire?
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Old 10-28-2013, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
8,152 posts, read 7,537,350 times
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No worries when you say "LOL". [/smiley]
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Whittier
3,004 posts, read 6,292,708 times
Reputation: 3082
The point of college is two-fold:

1. To expose you to new thoughts and ideas usually in your GE classes. And 2. To hone your expertise once you find your major.

The OP may have learned a lot on his own, but he certainly doesn't know everything.

Going into anything with that kind of attitude kinda defeats the purpose.

Sure, you don't have to go to a prestigious school, but that's besides the point. You can still go to a cheaper state school, or go to a community college then transfer. Saving thousands and still getting an education, and more importantly a degree. But really that's a whole other discussion.

Like another poster stated I was also self taught in things like IT and cars. I taught myself how to type by playing MMOs (and posting on forums) I also learned bits of other languages by playing foreign video games... but really none of that really matters unless it's applied to something and/or certified. That's just the way the world works.

A college degree, despite it's perceived worth these days, is valuable. If you have two equal candidates with the same experience, and one has a degree and the other doesn't, the employer will take the one with the degree almost every time.

--

With all of that being said, if you're miserable, and/or just want to forge ahead on your own...by all means go ahead. I just think that in life a college degree is kinda like a seat belt. It gives you a higher chance of survival. It may be uncomfortable at first, but eventually you'll get used to it. And it will be there when you get in an accident.
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:17 AM
 
219 posts, read 484,573 times
Reputation: 426
I don't necessarily disagree with your post ... but I do see value in a formal education and I completed my 4-year degree basically as a formality. Not at a fancy place - I could have gone to one, but my family did not have the funds to pay for it, and unless you attend Harvard or Yale or whatever, it doesn't matter worth a damn where you went to school once you start applying for jobs. Same with your GPA. Aside from the ppl at your first job intterview, nobody gives a crap what your GPA was, and they'd laugh in your face if you tried to talk about it.

A 4-year degree is a 4-year degree is a 4-year degree. (A 2-y degree is better than none but I still advocate getting a 4-y degree when financially possible).

In this day and age, not having a degree is a huge barrier to having a well-paying career. Not saying it can't be done, but ... you're obviously intelligent and articulate. Put in your time, get your degree and then do what you want to do. The most important thing in any workplace, I've found, is being a skilled communicator -- meaning being able to write and speak well and present yourself well. Those skills carry across multiple lines of work and can take you very far, if going far is indeed your bag.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil P View Post
As a person who is currently in his second year of college, I have to say that much of my knowledge has come from self education. I like to learn, certain things at least, and will research it on the internet. I paid attention in school, got good grades, and learned what the class was supposed to teach me, but sometimes school and your interests don't match up all the time. For instance, forum discussions have taught me a wealth about how to write quickly, effectively, and concisely. English classes did this too, but forum posts are like a bunch of little English assignments. Also it has taught me how to quickly see logical validity or flaws in peoples arguments.

So, from this, I am leery of putting too much emphasis on formal education. Do I have the potential to do well at a prestigious college, yep. Do me and my parents have the funds to go to a prestigious college, sure. Am I going to a prestigious college, no, because I don't want to be burdened down with debt to go learn something that I can learn if I just read some of the unassigned portions of the book.

About the job situation, I'm not sure how much the degree counts compared to experience, people skills, interview skills, and entrepreneurship in the work world.

So, the question I have is are we putting too much emphasis on formal education? I've heard once that the social benefit to the public of education diminishes greatly after about 6th grade. And are the people who really learn from college the same ones that would educate themselves if they weren't encouraged to go to college? Does lots of education for everybody really make everybody more knowledgeable?

Last edited by mselainey; 10-28-2013 at 10:37 AM..
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:40 AM
 
6,319 posts, read 7,264,694 times
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Even now decades later I am the only person I know who understands Economics (mostly) and the only person I know who found parallels between the War on Terror and WWII....all from a decent high school education.

I can make money off currency exchange because I understand it. Not many people do.
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Chicago area
18,759 posts, read 11,839,974 times
Reputation: 64168
I told one of my shorties a long time ago that hated school that the brain was nothing more then a muscle that needed to be exercised to develop it's full potential. I told him to think of each math problem and history lesson as the exercise needed to teach your brain to think during some of the life lessons you'll encounter along the way. Then I asked him to teach me some algebra because I loved numbers and I forgot how to do it. We did his math together and it was so much fun. He's 17 now and one of the brightest young man I've ever seen. He was always in the gifted programs throughout his school years. I'm hoping the common sense gift kicks in before the testosterone in his day to day life. He's driving now. I think I'll remind him our our talk and math lesson together some seven or so years ago the next time I take him out for a driving lesson with my manual trans. I think that common sense is better then book smarts any day, but you also need that piece of paper for a good future Phil P.
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Old 10-28-2013, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Taos NM
5,376 posts, read 5,188,079 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcl View Post
Consider that everything you 'teach yourself' is made possible through the formal education you went through prior to this point in your life.

I agree with the underlying message that once equipped with the right skills (taught through formal education), we all have the potential to further our own education.

Interestingly, your take on 'formal education' seems to be the somewhat outdated system of a teacher being the holder of all truths, and students being empty vessels that are to be filled with knowledge - these days it is hoped to be student-centered, where the teacher is simply a facilitator of the child's own learning journey - which aligns well with your view that we teach ourselves... we just need a little guidance along the way
And this is the main purpose of education in my opinion is to give a person the tools to educate themselves. I would never have taught myself any math, but it sure is useful for learning about things like economics and chemistry. With this said, I think we should maybe spend more time pushing preschool and quality elementary school to everyone, where kids learn these basics, instead of pushing higher degree learning for everyone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
A lot of large corporations won't even interview you for certain positions if you dob't have a college degree. I know that the hard way, because I'm in IT and I don't have a degree. I can't interview at IBM, for example.
This is why I am going for my bachelors in economics with a minor in statistics hopefully. It should be a degree that transfers halfway decent into the business world, but remains more open ended than a accounting or business degree. And I hope my business experience, doing some landscaping and other work on my own plus with dad plus with other people will make up for the "business" stuff you learn in business school.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
No worries when you say "LOL". [/smiley]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi3 View Post
Why are your pants on fire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
LOL That was a test! The OP was supposed to catch that!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
That's not concise, that's redundant. Use either "sometimes" or "don't match up all the time", but not both. (Your welcome) LOL I guess this proves your point about learning from forum discussions!




I would say, no, we're not. Take a look around at your classmates and imagine that all of them were on their own surfing the 'net in for knowledge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi3 View Post
(Your welcome) should be you're welcome. Gross error.
Yes haha you guys are funny. That's what happens when you post late at night.

And I like college and I like every class I'm taking, I'm just wondering if it's really the right choice for people who think undergrad is nothing but useless weed out classes.

And excersising the brain is important. I work with a guy who only went to school through second grade and sometimes basic problems confound him because he hasn't really used his brain for deep critical thinking too much. He get's by in life though for only having a second grade education.
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:51 PM
 
872 posts, read 1,265,591 times
Reputation: 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcoop View Post
college is defiantly not for everyone. that being said, i think the days of learning something on your own and making it far for certain jobs are gone.

For example, my husband is self taught in it and has moved up and does quite well. But he started down that road long ago so now his experience is more important. He also did have a 2 year degree but it had zero to do with anything he does now.

But as the previous poster stated, some places you can't even interview with without e degree.

Obviously having a love of learning is great and researching things you are interested in is important. Our son did that when painting his jeep and also with all the modifications he has done on it. Research and forums getting advice from others. He is in his sophomore year of college as an aerospace engineer. I suppose you could say those things sort of coincide. The engineering mind part. For him, obviously both components are important. Formal school and doing his own thing.
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Old 10-28-2013, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,620,746 times
Reputation: 14694
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
That's not concise, that's redundant. Use either "sometimes" or "don't match up all the time", but not both. (Your welcome) LOL I guess this proves your point about learning from forum discussions!




I would say, no, we're not. Take a look around at your classmates and imagine that all of them were on their own surfing the 'net in for knowledge.
The problem with being self taught is you are limited by what the teacher doesn't know. This is something I struggle with with my students. They THINK they know a lot because they can google things but they don't know good information from bad. There is a lot of misinformation out there.
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Old 10-28-2013, 04:49 PM
 
10,599 posts, read 17,952,598 times
Reputation: 17353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil P View Post
As a person who is currently in his second year of college, I have to say that much of my knowledge has come from self education. I like to learn, certain things at least, and will research it on the internet. I paid attention in school, got good grades, and learned what the class was supposed to teach me, but sometimes school and your interests don't match up all the time. For instance, forum discussions have taught me a wealth about how to write quickly, effectively, and concisely. English classes did this too, but forum posts are like a bunch of little English assignments. Also it has taught me how to quickly see logical validity or flaws in peoples arguments.

So, from this, I am leery of putting too much emphasis on formal education. Do I have the potential to do well at a prestigious college, yep. Do my parents and I have the funds to go to a prestigious college, sure. Am I going to a prestigious college, no, because I don't want to be burdened down with debt to go learn something that I can learn if I just read some of the unassigned portions of the book.

About the job situation, I'm not sure how much the degree counts compared to experience, people skills, interview skills, and entrepreneurship in the work world.

So, the question I have is are we putting too much emphasis on formal education? I've heard once that the social benefit to the public of education diminishes greatly after about 6th grade. And are the people who really learn from college the same ones that would educate themselves if they weren't encouraged to go to college? Does lots of education for everybody really make everybody more knowledgeable?

You're missing the point of education. It's not to glean something from books.

One of my employees said "At MIT they taught us to think. They teach the difference between test taking and everything else - including examination of alternatives to what we think are the correct answers."

Your brain stops growing when you're 26. You don't know what you don't know.

Find smarter people to hang around with to show you you're "not all that". Challenge yourself.

My first BF attended The Moore School of Electrical Engineering at U of Pa at age 15. They ran out of math for him in high school and undergrad.

There is ALWAYS A UNIVERSE OF INFORMATION YOU DO NOT KNOW. And someone to challenge your thoughts and teach you things. Not all lessons come from memorizing stuff.

Props to you, though, for not being willing to go into harsh debt. I applaud that tremendously.

Last edited by toobusytoday; 10-28-2013 at 05:52 PM.. Reason: removed remark re: fixed sentence, removed snide comment
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