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Old 05-26-2014, 07:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omatic View Post
If you could homeschool your kids without having to worry about money or a job, would you do it?

I don't have kids but if I ever do I would consider homeschooling them. Public schools today are out of control. That 'zero tolerance' nonsense, too much kids getting involved in sex and drugs at younger and younger ages, Tests, tests and more tests. Common Core? No thanks. The Government will not control my future kids' education.

I went to public school and hated it. Homeschooling allow you to work at your own pace. Anyone who says parents are sheltering their kids and keeping them in a bubble are ignorant. There are plenty of places to make friends by joining bowling leagues, homeschooling groups, local sports, enrichment classes, volunteering, etc.
I am a teacher and I wouldn't homeschool my children. I am a subject area specialist aka high school teacher, I do not know enough to teacher reading, writing, geometry, etc. Sure I could teach science, but that is one subject.

As an aside, I think homeschooling can be great for many kids. For those with social issues it can literally be lifesavers. For those who are right around the center of the distribution, above average to below average, it can be better than many public schools. But for the truly exceptional, homes schooling can't hold a candle to the public academies/magnet schools. Homeschooling can not begin to compare to places like High Tech high in NJ or TJ in Va or the math/science schools in TX. Not only are the facilities, teachers, curricula unique but the environment of camaraderie and challenge of being with peers of that caliber cannot be matched anywhere else.

Full disclosure, I work at a public academy and I know for a fact it is just not possible for a homeschool to give the experiences and opportunities our school can provide children.

Last edited by lkb0714; 05-26-2014 at 07:45 PM..
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Old 05-26-2014, 09:03 PM
 
Location: Spokane, WA
1,989 posts, read 2,524,260 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post

Full disclosure, I work at a public academy and I know for a fact it is just not possible for a homeschool to give the experiences and opportunities our school can provide children.
You can speak to the experiences at your school, but there's no way you can speak to how well homeschool kids are educated. Fact.

By the way, how would you measure success for the kids from your academy? And then how would that success be measured and compared to homeschool kids?
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Old 05-26-2014, 09:30 PM
 
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Would I ever homeschool? No.

I don't have the patience.

Trying to "prep" my oldest, when he was 4 years old, for pre-K4 was nothing but a lot of arguing and tears. I don't have the ability to back off my kids as I would someone else's (teaching wise). I expect way too much from my children when they aren't ready to give any more than they are able to.

He wanted to go to school, and when I took him to visit (it was in November, wasn't sure if I wanted him to go to pre-K or not) the school's pre-k 4 class, he happily sat in the circle, turned around to look at me a few times - I thought he wanted to make sure I was still there, but then he walked over to me and told me I could "leave now".

That was it for me. See ya later kiddo! Signed him up that day.

I think you have to have a certain type of a personality to be able to homeschool your children successfully. I don't have that personality.

Last edited by Informed Info; 05-26-2014 at 09:42 PM..
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Old 05-26-2014, 10:03 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,643,943 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aplcr0331 View Post
You can speak to the experiences at your school, but there's no way you can speak to how well homeschool kids are educated. Fact.
It is not a fact. My students work in a NOAA research lab DAILY as part of their course work including weekly access to the largest research vessel dedicated to the region. I can guarantee that homeschool children do not have that experience.

Quote:
By the way, how would you measure success for the kids from your academy? And then how would that success be measured and compared to homeschool kids?
How about by using reading comprehension?

What I said was "experiences and opportunities" not success. Maybe you are unaware but changing the words of someone's post is a logical fallacy called "moving the goal posts".

As for success, lets pick something very objective, say admission to a particular school. Because I have access to these numbers lets start with USNA, in a typical year they accept between 1-5 homeschooled students. There are between 1.7-2.1 million homeschoolers, so 1/12 of those are seniors meaning there are about 150K homeschooled seniors. Out of that at most 5 went to USNA in a year, that is 0.003%.

U.S. Service Academies Accepting Home Schoolers (HSLDA | National Center Special Report)

There are slightly less than 80 seniors at my school, 4 of them were accepted at USNA, that is more than 5% of them.

Want to do the same thing for the Ivy league? Harvard takes about 10 homeschoolers a year, that makes 0.006% of homeschoolers going to harvard. Now as we are a NJ district we get a few more into Princeton than Harvard, but district wide (about 350 seniors) we have 6 going this year (that is nearly 2%), and another 20-30 accepted to the rest of IL (nearly 7% a year on average).

But to be fair our kids are in the top 10%. So lets compare that. So that would 15,000 seniors, and 5 going to USNA. That is getting closer, now it is 0.03% compared to 5%.

For harvard, that is 0.06% vs 2%. Getting closer but still three order of magnitude off.
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Old 05-26-2014, 11:41 PM
 
10,181 posts, read 10,208,310 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
It is not a fact. My students work in a NOAA research lab DAILY as part of their course work including weekly access to the largest research vessel dedicated to the region. I can guarantee that homeschool children do not have that experience.



How about by using reading comprehension?

What I said was "experiences and opportunities" not success. Maybe you are unaware but changing the words of someone's post is a logical fallacy called "moving the goal posts".

As for success, lets pick something very objective, say admission to a particular school. Because I have access to these numbers lets start with USNA, in a typical year they accept between 1-5 homeschooled students. There are between 1.7-2.1 million homeschoolers, so 1/12 of those are seniors meaning there are about 150K homeschooled seniors. Out of that at most 5 went to USNA in a year, that is 0.003%.

U.S. Service Academies Accepting Home Schoolers (HSLDA | National Center Special Report)

There are slightly less than 80 seniors at my school, 4 of them were accepted at USNA, that is more than 5% of them.

Want to do the same thing for the Ivy league? Harvard takes about 10 homeschoolers a year, that makes 0.006% of homeschoolers going to harvard. Now as we are a NJ district we get a few more into Princeton than Harvard, but district wide (about 350 seniors) we have 6 going this year (that is nearly 2%), and another 20-30 accepted to the rest of IL (nearly 7% a year on average).

But to be fair our kids are in the top 10%. So lets compare that. So that would 15,000 seniors, and 5 going to USNA. That is getting closer, now it is 0.03% compared to 5%.

For harvard, that is 0.06% vs 2%. Getting closer but still three order of magnitude off.
And that is another reason I would never homeschool my kids.

Play groups, gymnastics, girl/boy scouts, the YMCA, taking 'em to the playground ... kids who aren't homeschooled participate in those exact same activities outside of school. It still doesn't offer the opportunities a public or private school can and does.

Yes, a home schooled child can try out for and play on the local public school sports teams, but they aren't going to be peer leaders, attending Model UN/Congress, sitting on the school judiciary board, don't have a year book/school "newspaper" club to join, can't be in any of the drama productions, can't participate in the band or string ensemble, don't get to join the ski club with their peers, don't get to travel to Japan/Costa Rica/EU with their peers and teachers. Is there a study abroad/exchange student program for high school aged homeschoolers? Some homeschooler in France or Germany is going to homeschool your kid for a semester or a tri-mester?

They just DO NOT have the same advantages available to them and that they can stick on their high school resume as a child who isn't homeschooled does.

I understand that a very few homeschooled children attend ivy league colleges, percentage wise.

Our private school just put up a video of the seniors wearing their t-shirts/sweatshirts of the colleges they were accepted to. It's a sweet little video.

Senior class, under 100 - the majority are either going to Ivies or Ivy wanna be's. Columbia, Princeton, NYU, Barnard, Dartmouth, Stanford, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Johns Hopkins, UofP, Lafayette, Lehigh, Muhlenberg, Tufts, Georgetown. There are a few "eye-rolls" in there, but just b/c you have the $$ to send your kid to a private school doesn't mean they're going to get in to a college better than Rutgers or Rowan. The majority, however, did.

That's pretty good if you ask me.

Could I teach my kids an honors or AP class?

Nope.

Is my oldest taking two AP classes in his sophomore year of HS?

Yep.

Is it better that a qualified professional does that rather than me or anyone else who thinks they can teach off the cuff with no experience?

Sure is!
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Old 05-27-2014, 12:17 AM
 
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Wow. Mention "homeschool' and some sure do get heated. It's a touchy subject!

I agree with Bluefox, upthread. I've seen homeschooling done extraordinarily well.

The concerns regarding socialization are largely dated, referring back to HS'g in the ~seventies, and even further back on the time line - when many HSrs opted out of the system for religious reasons. Those same families tended to opt out of a lot of community-centered living / societal norms, and the children were often out of touch with other children. Those days have gone the way of the buffalo.

There is a very small minority of families who strategically choose homeschooling as a means of avoiding behavioral and/or social challenges that they and/or their children have experienced. I cringe when I see people say, "HSg is a great option for socially challenged..." as one teacher eluded to / said upthread. I could not disagree more. Homeschooling can be a satisfying and successful experience, but rarely is running from a problem sincerely a solution.

These factors, both the historical context of HS'g and the modern-day outliers, contribute to this misconception that HSrs are socially awkward misfits. I wonder, too, how much people's fears about their own choices to public school their children causes such strong reactions. Could it be...cognitive dissonance?

Nowadays, the HS majority as I've come to know consist of parents who know better, and trust their intuition. HSg is truly a luxury, an option for those who can afford it.

HS'g is definitely a serious undertaking that the best HSr parents do not take lightly. The HS'rs who address the whole child typically complement their in-home academics with out-of-home social time / physical rigor / etc. There are oodles of HS communities nowadays - and the successful homeschoolers are networked in, deep. Rarely is a HSr on their own and doing it well, imho.

BTW - yes: as you can probably tell, I homeschooled - for two glorious years. I credit many of my gray hairs to that time. It was the toughest, most rewarding experience EVER. I met some of the best families: dedicated educators, sincere, centered people - folks I continue to keep in touch with to this day, years later.

OP - good luck, some day, with HS'g. Between now and then, I hope you consider the benefits also available in the traditional school setting. There are many challenges in the classroom for teachers, children, and parents alike to navigate - though there are also so many magical moments, too. Very little in this life is black or white, extreme one thing or the other - and that includes all said schooling options. Many, many HS families opt for traditional school at some point - depending on their children's personalities, stages in development, etc., - and in so doing, these families seize the best of both worlds.

Last edited by anniefinboston; 05-27-2014 at 12:25 AM..
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Old 05-27-2014, 07:46 AM
 
1,675 posts, read 2,771,726 times
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I've considered it and weighed the options and decided not to so far. However, I do think kids can learn more homeschooling, and have time to focus on areas of interest.

Kids in public schools -- even the best schools -- are out of control. Many are more interested in Instagram than they are in their school work. Then they have "leadership" programs that reward the loud, popular kids who are charmers -- to keep them busy and direct their extrovertedness into something positive, I suppose. However, the NICE kids that are well behaved often get ignored and passed by, with teachers taking them for granted. No, it is not easy to raise a nice, well mannered, focused kid in this culture -- those kids need attention too.

So if a child isn't doing well in the environment, and parents can't find or afford a private school, then yes, I think homeschooling can be a good solution. And this is especially true in cases of bullying, social anxiety etc.
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Old 05-27-2014, 07:48 AM
 
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This is another version of homeschooling I'd consider:

My kids are taking a school sabbatical - CNN.com


We are seriously considering this for next school year...to see grandparents before they die, to see the US, and to take a break before the pressure cooker of HS.
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Old 05-27-2014, 07:52 AM
 
1,675 posts, read 2,771,726 times
Reputation: 950
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
It is not a fact. My students work in a NOAA research lab DAILY as part of their course work including weekly access to the largest research vessel dedicated to the region. I can guarantee that homeschool children do not have that experience.



How about by using reading comprehension?

What I said was "experiences and opportunities" not success. Maybe you are unaware but changing the words of someone's post is a logical fallacy called "moving the goal posts".

As for success, lets pick something very objective, say admission to a particular school. Because I have access to these numbers lets start with USNA, in a typical year they accept between 1-5 homeschooled students. There are between 1.7-2.1 million homeschoolers, so 1/12 of those are seniors meaning there are about 150K homeschooled seniors. Out of that at most 5 went to USNA in a year, that is 0.003%.

U.S. Service Academies Accepting Home Schoolers (HSLDA | National Center Special Report)

There are slightly less than 80 seniors at my school, 4 of them were accepted at USNA, that is more than 5% of them.

Want to do the same thing for the Ivy league? Harvard takes about 10 homeschoolers a year, that makes 0.006% of homeschoolers going to harvard. Now as we are a NJ district we get a few more into Princeton than Harvard, but district wide (about 350 seniors) we have 6 going this year (that is nearly 2%), and another 20-30 accepted to the rest of IL (nearly 7% a year on average).

But to be fair our kids are in the top 10%. So lets compare that. So that would 15,000 seniors, and 5 going to USNA. That is getting closer, now it is 0.03% compared to 5%.

For harvard, that is 0.06% vs 2%. Getting closer but still three order of magnitude off.

There's a fallacy in this data. You need to use homeschoolers WHO APPLY to Ivy League vs Public School WHO APPLY vs Private school WHO APPLY.

Also, some people homeschool because they don't live in school districts as good as yours.
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Old 05-27-2014, 08:15 AM
 
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We are both educators, so from this point of view we would not have a problem homeschooling. But putting this aside, and not taking into the consideration the very important issue of socializing with other kids, I think it would be very important for my kids to also be exposed to different styles of teaching (some more uncomfortable than other), and to have to filter the information it was transmitted to them in maybe not the most efficient way. When they have to do this, they really train their brain for real life, because they are forced to tackle challenges that are non-existent in a home-schooling environment.
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