Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-07-2014, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Outer Space
1,523 posts, read 3,900,906 times
Reputation: 1817

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
Common Core is not without its problems, but a lot of what you read is hyperbole. I strongly suggest taking the time to read carefully through the standards and to talk to your kids' teachers about how curriculum choices align with those standards. Attend school board meetings and ask questions. Lots of questions! Controversy over The Bluest Eye is a beautiful example of how incomplete information can be used to manipulate people. Please, folks, before you join the raging hoards, do your research and think for yourselves. Are you really opposed to creating consistent standards for our nation's students? I'm not. Having moved my kids multiple times from one end of the country to the other, I've seen first-hand how states vary in the quality of the public education they provide. I'd really like to see a more standardized progression. Is Common Core the answer? Erm, I'm not convinced that we're there quite yet, but I think the idea has a lot of potential to improve the state of public education. That's my $.02. YMMV.
One the one hand, you are correct, it is good to have a set of standards. What is not good is the fact that CC was never pilot tested, so there is no research to suggest it actually will work. No K-3 educators were consulted at all in the formation of the standards. States adopted CC before the standards were even finalized because the DOE attached the adoption of the CC standards to receiving Race to the Top grant money and NCLB waivers. Not because they actually sat down and carefully weighed the pros and cons of adopting Common Core for the students' sake, but because they wanted the money. Some states, such as MN and MA actually had HIGHER standards than currently covered by CC. That's why MN only has a partial adoption of standards.

Consider who stands to profit from CC. I share OP's concern about the ever increasing influence of corporations in our public education system. For example, the publishing giant Pearson created a shell non-profit to solicit money to lobby for Common Core just so its for-profit arm could turn around and sell CC branded textbooks and testing material to districts which would be forced by the DOE into standardize testing students with a test Pearson would conveniently provide. They were sued by the state of NY and settled for $7.7 million over this, so this not some nutball Glenn Beck conspiracy theory. It was the absolute truth of the situation. Please note, I am well aware that CC does not mandate standardized testing or the use of certain materials, but the reality is districts need to be assured their students pass the tests required by the DOE and do not trust their own teachers' judgement alone to deliver those results.

My problem with CC isn't with the standards per se, but rather the terrible implementation of them and the very questionable motives behind the biggest backers of them.

The coming Common Core meltdown

A tough critique of Common Core on early childhood education

Why is this Common Core math problem so hard? Supporters respond to quiz that went viral | Hechinger Report

More protests after thousands opt out of New York Common Core testing | 7online.com

Mercedes Schneider Explains: Who Paid for the Common Core Standards | Diane Ravitch

Research Questions Common-Core Claims by Publishers - Education Week

Pearson pays $7.7 million in Common Core settlement - The Washington Post

Gates Foundation pours millions into Common Core in 2013

Global Leader Pearson Creates Leading Curriculum, Apps for Digital Learning Environments - Press Release - Digital Journal

Utah’s Common Core test is making the state money

Federal education policy experts warn against parts of Florida's pending accountability revisions | Tampa Bay Times

Minn. moves ahead with some Common Core education standards | Minnesota Public Radio News


Not CC related, but very concerning to say the least for anyone with children in public schools:

Fordham Center on Law and Information Policy study: Student data not safe in the cloud.

Privacy and Cloud Computing in Public Schools - Fordham Law

Google Under Fire for Data-Mining Student Email Messages - Education Week
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-07-2014, 07:51 PM
 
Location: The analog world
17,077 posts, read 13,366,942 times
Reputation: 22904
Sonnenwende, that's a terrific reading list. I'm familiar with a few of the articles, but not all. Looking forward to digging into the rest, so thanks! I think first and foremost, though, anyone interested in Common Core should go to the source. Lots of people who have very strong opinions about the validity of Common Core have never taken the time to read through the standards (which, btw, are impenetrable boilerplate, so I understand the resistance). I ran into one tonight at the Rec Center while I was waiting for my kids. He was full of bluster, but when I asked him to support his opinions with examples, he was unable to do so despite obviously being an intelligent man. That's a problem, because a productive discussion is impossible without specifics to debate. Furthermore, how do parents know what supplementation is appropriate if they cannot identify deficiencies in either the standards or the curriculums their local schools use to fulfill those standards? This, in essence is what the OP is asking, but it's impossible to answer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-07-2014, 08:09 PM
 
2,613 posts, read 4,146,024 times
Reputation: 1486
Comparing with other state standards?
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
Sonnenwende, that's a terrific reading list. I'm familiar with a few of the articles, but not all. Looking forward to digging into the rest, so thanks! I think first and foremost, though, anyone interested in Common Core should go to the source. Lots of people who have very strong opinions about the validity of Common Core have never taken the time to read through the standards (which, btw, are impenetrable boilerplate, so I understand the resistance). I ran into one tonight at the Rec Center while I was waiting for my kids. He was full of bluster, but when I asked him to support his opinions with examples, he was unable to do so despite obviously being an intelligent man. That's a problem, because a productive discussion is impossible without specifics to debate. Furthermore, how do parents know what supplementation is appropriate if they cannot identify deficiencies in either the standards or the curriculums their local schools use to fulfill those standards? This, in essence is what the OP is asking, but it's impossible to answer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-07-2014, 08:14 PM
 
483 posts, read 670,481 times
Reputation: 587
Have you read what was in it? It isn't all that bad. I agree with you about the corporate part, though. Singapore math is the way our district is incorporating the CC.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-07-2014, 08:30 PM
 
Location: The analog world
17,077 posts, read 13,366,942 times
Reputation: 22904
Quote:
Originally Posted by LovelySummer View Post
Comparing with other state standards?
How does one compare Common Core to other standards if one hasn't read the CCSS? That was the situation tonight. He couldn't back up his position; but boy could he spout propaganda. He was a nice enough man, and I'm sure he meant well, but he had made up his mind in a vacuum. He just knew that Common Core sucks, but he had no idea how.

As for the OP, I think she needs to start locally, after thoroughly reading the standards. If she reviews the district's curriculum and identifies specific deficiencies, then she will have at least a semblance of an idea where to start looking for supplementation.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-07-2014, 09:10 PM
 
4,040 posts, read 7,441,759 times
Reputation: 3899
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
It's completely legitimate to point out that dual working parent households often lack sufficient time and flexibility to take as active a role as necessary in their children's education.
You would have been well advised to point out that "dual working parent households often lack sufficient time and flexibility" - and stop at that.
Just because working parents may end up with little time or flexibility for themselves doesn't mean they will they fail to "take an active role in their children's education". In fact, this suggestion is quite insulting for working parents.
What some don't bother to mention is that many of these parents make huge efforts to BOTH PROVIDE AND TAKE AN ACTIVE ROLE in their children's education, even at the risk of being left without a single minute to themselves.

Not only their gargantuan efforts often go un-acknowledged but in my experience they are also made to feel like second class citizens when compared to those parents who stay at home because they are presumably "crazy about their children's education". It is amazing that so many working parents have gotten used to this subtle yet quite shameless discrimination and tacit disdain ... and simply "take it".

The poster whose post you were alluding to was clearly blaming working parents for ...well...working, as opposed to having one of them at home. His implication was that everyone could do the SAH gig if they really, really wanted (even the poorest!) and everyone should do it (or else: parents are clearly not interested enough in their children's education or well being, hence children won't get what they need). His post implied all this.

Households with a parent at home, while clearly having more time to kill, are hardly anymore involved in their children's education, on average, than households where both parents work.
Sorry, but volunteering at school does not count as being "involved in child's education" in my book.

Let's stick with quality of academic content and child's actual academic performance; and if rushing to cite some "empirical study" is too tempting, do make sure they controlled for socio-economic status in there.

Last edited by syracusa; 04-07-2014 at 09:39 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-07-2014, 09:49 PM
 
4,040 posts, read 7,441,759 times
Reputation: 3899
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
How does one compare Common Core to other standards if one hasn't read the CCSS? That was the situation tonight. He couldn't back up his position; but boy could he spout propaganda. He was a nice enough man, and I'm sure he meant well, but he had made up his mind in a vacuum. He just knew that Common Core sucks, but he had no idea how.

As for the OP, I think she needs to start locally, after thoroughly reading the standards. If she reviews the district's curriculum and identifies specific deficiencies, then she will have at least a semblance of an idea where to start looking for supplementation.
I am very much familiar with the district's curriculum and their standards as I am more than involved in my children's education ( as hard as some may find this to believe coming from a working parent, per above).

It is exactly because I am very familiar with it that I know it is lacking. I supplement at home as much as possible but "after-hours mini homeschooling" can hardly make up for all the content the school fails to dover during the day -when there is time available and children's minds are fresh.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-07-2014, 09:57 PM
 
Location: The analog world
17,077 posts, read 13,366,942 times
Reputation: 22904
Okay, that's great. So give us an idea of your priorities. What do you find lacking? It's all well and good to compare your son's math assignments and those you studied as a child, but we have no idea what was different about them. If you shared specifics, you might get useful suggestions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-07-2014, 10:07 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,573 posts, read 17,281,298 times
Reputation: 37315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
..................it makes very little sense to ban good multicultural literature simply because the subject matter is difficult.
Nah. Moby Dick is difficult. Uncle Tom's Cabin, Last of The Mohicans, Great Expectations were difficult. The portion I read of Bluest Eye was written on a Ninth grade level. Nothing difficult about it. Reading Bluest Eye is the equivalent of listening to Howard Stern.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-07-2014, 10:41 PM
 
Location: CA
1,009 posts, read 1,147,519 times
Reputation: 788
CC math is similar to Singapore mathematics- visual mathematics. For those complaining that there is not enough homework, some of the highest achieving countries do not give homework! Finland starts teaching when kids are 7. Their schools are funded- really funded! Teachers must test into a teaching college- only the most elite are accepted. Teaching is a profession.

Teaching 1st this year, CC math is MUCH better than what we did previously. The concept development is more appropriate and deeper. Instead of "surface learning," the understanding is much deeper. I see how parents can see it as being easier/dumbed down, but I taught 6th for years. Kids would learn "tricks" to finding the answers, but have no idea or understanding.

Nationally normed is a great idea. We moved to Ohio from CA for one year. They asked if my 4th grader knew how to read. They would not look at his school record until I made a formal request. They made ignorant comments to us about CA schools. I then found there was a difference. The Ohio schools had weaker standards in math and reading. Therefore, their tests showed a higher percentage, but it was easier math. My son said, "It's the same math we did in 3rd and they do not read books! They use magazines."

For those in CC, it's going to show where the learning is.

THAT ALL SAID...I think we are WAY OVER TESTING our kids! Jesus! I am sticking to 1st grade where we take running breaks, lift weights (medicine balls) on hourly breaks (Finland), so a ton of science experiments that make you think, puzzles, play chess, learn phonics (sometimes you just have to learn rules for writing and spelling), and learn how to walk in the halls and line up without taking someone out.

We have lost touch with kids leaving for the day and them just hanging out in the hood with their friends. The competition is insane for colleges- kids with 4.2GPA's not getting into a UC? The kid worked hard so get him into a good college!

Rant over- my alarm is set for 4:30 daily so that I can be on campus 2 hrs. for set up. I mentioned it's 1st grade, right?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top