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LOL.. the real gifted students actually knew the words BEFORE even playing bingo! (they heard it once, grasped it, and knew it well enough for the test without study aids like BINGO games).
And re: the SpEd / IEP students...their IEPs often state a success measure as a "B" in the classs... so they always get B's or above (often A's; they are taking modified tests)...and then end up on Honor Rolls and High Honor Rolls, and with high GPA's! In our district, most special ed students are on the honor rolls...a much higher percentage than regular ed and even Honors students (in middle school, honors students are graded tougher, there is no "GPA bump", so honors students are often NOT on the Honor Rolls).
I do wonder how the colleges KNOW (especially those not requiring SAT?!) since their IEP/SpEd status does not have to be disclosed on the application. No wonder a huge percent of college students require remediation!
And, it is no wonder why we are weakening in STEM when we don't support our top students. We hjave a 99 percentile Math kid who taught himself computer programming (7th grade)...he learns little in public school and it's been so frustrating. We are thinking about private high schools.
If your kid signs up for AP and Honors courses in high school, he will likely be with a cohort of students who are on the high end as they move through the day. That may meet his educational needs. Perhaps he can sit in on a day's worth of classes to see what he thinks.
But I would certainly take a good look at private high schools if he's scoring in the 99%.
He may stick through elementary and middle school because he's a good kid, but may throw in the towel if high school is the same boring, frustrating deal. It is not only the bottom kids who drop out of high school, some of the top kids just give up and refuse to participate in the nonsense any longer.
This business of "the top kids will make it whether we educate them or not" is not something you can count on.
They're still often much better schools than public schools.
Indeed. Private schools often do no accept the bottom students. Which means that the classes can move at a faster pace which means more learning and higher test scores.
There's a reason that people write out those tuition checks and it is because private schools meet the educational needs of their kids in a way that public schools do not.
How many parents would write out tuition checks to a school where their kid is given a book and told to go off to an empty room and teach himself college math? I'm thinking not many.
First of all, the normal crop of Gifted and Talented Students are only exceeded in mediocrity and hilarity by their proud parents. I have seen one gifted and talented kid in 9 years of teaching.
Having stated the obvious, If I really had, or more relevantly, if I was gifted and talented, I would be pissed. The classroom teacher spend NO time on them. They are looked at as life rings in a sea of malignant sharks. The VAST majority of my time is spent on lower level and lower performing students. 90%, even the "packers" Navy talk for those in the pack, are gypped.
It is a shame. The EC lobby has been so successful that now, they have so many reports and paperwork, that the EC specialists spend their day pushing paper, not teaching or assisting. That is left to the classroom teacher.
On a positive note, if one is not intrinsically motivated, one is not going far regardless of intelligence, so the current grim situation permits those that can "hack it" realize it and move up, while those that are smart, but need external rewards, to fall by the wayside, sooner rather than later.
Oh, if you haven't figured it out, the American K-12 education system is melting down fast, pretty much like the rest of the country. It is sad. And it will only get worse.
Indeed. Private schools often do no accept the bottom students. Which means that the classes can move at a faster pace which means more learning and higher test scores.
There's a reason that people write out those tuition checks and it is because private schools meet the educational needs of their kids in a way that public schools do not.
How many parents would write out tuition checks to a school where their kid is given a book and told to go off to an empty room and teach himself college math? I'm thinking not many.
The only person's test scores that matter are your kids'. It doesn't matter if there is a "bottom group" that brings down the test scores.
Having stated the obvious, If I really had, or more relevantly, if I was gifted and talented, I would be pissed. The classroom teacher spend NO time on them. They are looked at as life rings in a sea of malignant sharks. The VAST majority of my time is spent on lower level and lower performing students. 90%, even the "packers" Navy talk for those in the pack, are gypped.
That's what I've observed. The teachers spend the majority of their time dealing with the bottom third of the class and the instructional pace is so slooooooooow that even the middle of the pack kids are gazing out the window.
When we've asked for a more engaging, more rigorous curriculum, they tell us that our kids will make it, don't worry.
The sad thing is that that this system is not serving the bottom students particularly well either. Despite all the I.E.P.s and aides and pull outs, most leave school with few career prospects. There are some vocational programs in high school, but even those are being cut back.
Many either end up on SSDI, and/or washing dishes, or working as a CNA, or stocking shelves... requiring food stamps, subsidized housing and medical care, etc. The functional illiteracy rate in prison is over 60%.
Despite pulling resources from the top and middle students, we are not doing a particularly good job of preparing the bottom students for their future.
That's what I've observed. The teachers spend the majority of their time dealing with the bottom third of the class and the instructional pace is so slooooooooow that even the middle of the pack kids are gazing out the window.
When we've asked for a more engaging, more rigorous curriculum, they tell us that our kids will make it, don't worry.
This is why the bottom doesn't belong in the regular classroom. If we're going to spend half of our resources on the bottom third, they should be in smaller classes with teacher's aids (or bouncers as the case may be). If you take the bottom out of my classes, I can teach the middle/top well. I do think the middle belongs with the top. I find that raising the bar results in them stretching and learning more.
It's not that we need to separate out the top and give them something special. It's we need to quit dragging everyone down to the bottom.
That's what I've observed. The teachers spend the majority of their time dealing with the bottom third of the class and the instructional pace is so slooooooooow that even the middle of the pack kids are gazing out the window.
When we've asked for a more engaging, more rigorous curriculum, they tell us that our kids will make it, don't worry.
That's what I've observed. The teachers spend the majority of their time dealing with the bottom third of the class and the instructional pace is so slooooooooow that even the middle of the pack kids are gazing out the window.
When we've asked for a more engaging, more rigorous curriculum, they tell us that our kids will make it, don't worry.
Yep, me too.
For instance, in 4th grade "inclusion class", the lower group of students was not getting that anything divided by 1 is itself, and divided by 0 is undefined. The class spent DAYS on this. My son got it in 5 minutes (actually, he already knew it but was interested in the "undefined" concept that was over many kids' heads). He was coming home exasperated that they wasted all this time on such an easy concept!!
It was then that I finally demanded different work for my son (my prior attempts just got the "well, we already give him the challenge worksheets"). He then worked at a much higher level (pre-algebra to basic algebra), on his own, for the rest of the year. with very occasional help from teacher. There were 2 teachers (regular and sp ed) and 1 aide in that class due to kids with autism and other LD...but the special ed teachers/aides can only work with certain kids. And the head teacher has to "work with all kids". But at least he got appropriate work. The next year, though, it was back to the same system (a few "challenge" sheets for the kids that get the regular work done quickly). Middle school "Honors Math" is still easy but at least has him in the proper peer group.
Last edited by snuffybear; 04-26-2014 at 08:17 AM..
The sad thing is that that this system is not serving the bottom students particularly well either. Despite all the I.E.P.s and aides and pull outs, most leave school with few career prospects. There are some vocational programs in high school, but even those are being cut back.
Many either end up on SSDI, and/or washing dishes, or working as a CNA, or stocking shelves... requiring food stamps, subsidized housing and medical care, etc. The functional illiteracy rate in prison is over 60%.
Despite pulling resources from the top and middle students, we are not doing a particularly good job of preparing the bottom students for their future.
Yep, I see them pushed thru with B's, and whining throughout that everything is too hard.
I don't know the solution for SpEd....but I do know that "inclusion classes" don't work for the top students, and this is why we have a problem with our country not turning out enough top math/science graduates....they are HELD BACK from the NCLB system and not allowed to advance at their level. I tend to think one neighboring district has it right, by having separate SpEd classes for academic subjects (for kids below grade level) and then mainstreaming those kids for non-academic subjects (art, PE, etc). However, the SpEd community wants their kids fully included in every aspect of the school day. So then they are in regular classes, with parents often complaining that they can't keep up, and there is too much homework (because it takes them much longer to do). So then they throw money at aides and extra teachers and "resource rooms" (ie, tutoring/test prep - sometimes, they are literally given the test, to study for the test, and the test has half the questions) for these kids. And they negotiate their grades...anything below a B and the "IEP is not working". So they get B's and above (often A's so the admin can "prove the IEP is working so well!") and get pushed through, with low reading levels and trouble with math. These kids, in my opinion, would be better off in small classes all day learning at their level...ie, it does NOT help them to read books at a 7th grade level and memorize answers to a test, when their actual reading level is 4th grade!).
When I was in school 70s/80s, I was just given the next grade's math book to work on. But they "aren't allowed" to provide that anymore...because "then they aren't learning what they are tested on". SIGH.
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