Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
My point is that he operates around a 3rd/4th grade level in 7th grade. I'm not sure it's really helping him to be in the social studies class. I'm sure he'd learn more in a class with others more like him. And my point was, that nana asked how I knew he had autism, and those combined with the other information I had, are signs of autism that can be found on any checklist.
The checklist does not define any individual child, though.
Is he functioning academically at the same level as his class? Accommodations do not mean he is not, just that he needs help to get there.
It might actually be productive for the kids in these classes to be educated about what autism is and is not and how to help their classmates with autism or any other special need. The presentation at this blogspot was given to a class of 10 year olds. I would imagine that is 4th or 5th grade. She did talk about her own child, but also a bit about autism in general.
The checklist does not define any individual child, though. It might actually be productive for the kids in these classes to be educated about what autism is and is not and how to help their classmates with autism or any other special need. The presentation at this blogspot was given to a class of 10 year olds. I would imagine that is 4th or 5th grade. She did talk about her own child, but also a bit about autism in general.
I'm well aware what the lists say and have been around quite a few kids with autism for years. In fact I taught swim lessons to kids with autism. My son has been sitting by this particular kid on/off for 8 years! But when it gets annoying, because he is always used as the role model, it gets old and the empathy only goes so far. My kid is always nice to him, but my kid needs to make friends on his own level, too. Perhaps they should have the "popular" kids or average students work on their empathy instead of repeatedly using gifted kids as role models.
And as I stated above, the mom has TOLD me he has 'mild' autism. And none of the moms (there are several) with kids with autism in the grade (and other grades) want this type of presentation done. They feel it calls more attention to the situation and they would rather keep a low profile. And that is their right, too. But frankly, I think he would be better off in resource room for all academic subjects and mainstreamed for PE and Art and any other electives. They have done it that way with other kids with autism and it appears more successful. Remember, I am talking about middle school, with an 8-period school day. The presentation above seems to be about elementary school, where inclusion works better in a (theoretically) differentiated classroom. But remember, differentation is always more focused on "at risk" kids than gifted ones, so I still feel this type of classroom affects the gifted students. My kids have been in these classrooms about every other year, for all of elem school. I've seen it work well, and not work well...there are many factors including teacher, needs, classroom management, degree of severity of special needs, class size, etc.
Can we get back to the topic now?
Last edited by snuffybear; 04-29-2014 at 07:48 PM..
**One company supplying software for these programs believes a student with two hours of computer lab instruction can equal what a student would accomplish in one month of regular classes. The instructor who first told me about this felt that this was an accurate appraisal from what she had seen in two years of working in the program, after several years of teaching in regular classes.**
Personally I would expect it to vary with the student and the subject.
For me mathematics always seemed to be slowed down by most of the class. I would not have given a damn about history even if it came out of a computer.
But the simple fact that 1 to 1 computing would mean each student would get 100% of the device's attention rather 4% of a teacher's attention in a class of 25 should speed things up if the students do not need to be forced to learn. If the student requires coercion then the computer may be useless.
But again this thread is about the gifted/talented. So if learning was increased only 30% in terms of time how much would that amount to over 12 years of education? Like maybe they would not need to go to college.
Yes, I have an idea of these laws. No, I'm not a teacher or sub for a school district, but I have been on a school improvement committee for a political organization for about 25 years, and have been the chair for probably 20 of those years. I've also taught teen parenting in high school.
I have to clarify I'm speaking for myself on this board.
I'm not sure just how it is hurting your kids to be in say, social studies class with special ed students. Disruptive students are a different thing altogether, but not all SPED kids are disruptive, and not all disruptive students are SPED.
It hurts regular and gifted students to be in social studies classes with students who can hardly read. It changes the way a teacher teaches a class when the teacher knows that a significant portion of the class will not be able to learn from advanced readings or is not capable of writing an in depth analysis of an issue.
I am a big fan of tracking. I think that everyone benefits from tracking.
Yes, I have an idea of these laws. No, I'm not a teacher or sub for a school district, but I have been on a school improvement committee for a political organization for about 25 years, and have been the chair for probably 20 of those years. I've also taught teen parenting in high school.
I have to clarify I'm speaking for myself on this board.
I'm not sure just how it is hurting your kids to be in say, social studies class with special ed students. Disruptive students are a different thing altogether, but not all SPED kids are disruptive, and not all disruptive students are SPED.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear
It hurts regular and gifted students to be in social studies classes with students who can hardly read. It changes the way a teacher teaches a class when the teacher knows that a significant portion of the class will not be able to learn from advanced readings or is not capable of writing an in depth analysis of an issue.
I am a big fan of tracking. I think that everyone benefits from tracking.
I do too.
Many SpEd students are left bewildered in a class moving at an average speed. Any teacher worth his/her salt will modify teaching to include these students as much as possible. There are posts on this thread from teachers who state clearly that they have had to cut back on the curriculum they cover so as not to leave the slower students in the dust.
Reading assignments, reports, discussions, group projects -- how does this work when some of the students can barely read and struggle to comprehend what's going on?
We are doing the SpEd students no favors as we haul them along without the repetition that many need to learn material. Huge gaps in their knowledge make progress more and more difficult as the years go by.
We are fools to think that this is doing their self-esteem any favors. The kids all know who's who in a classroom. SpEd students often become hesitant to raise their hand to ask or answer questions. They can see the expressions on the faces of those around them. They can hear the names the other students call them. Theres a big push now not to use the R word.
A large percentage of the teacher's time and attention is devoted to the SpEd kids. There are I.E.P. requirements that she/he must attend to. Whether it is standing near the student with ADHD diagnosis to help with focusing, or modifying tests and projects for the student with cognitive impairments, .... this all takes time and attention. Time and attention that is taken away from the other students.
Art classes where basic concepts are presented and students each work on their own projects, as long as students can behave themselves and not throw art supplies all over creation, it works having everyone in the same room works. P.E. is fine too.
But any class that requires reading, discussion, grasping concepts, writing reports, working on projects, the kids who can't keep up the pace slow everyone down.
As an added bonus, without the repetition that many SpEd kids to grasp the material, they often don't get the foundation they need to be successful as they move along.
For example, my understanding is that reading is no longer taught after the 6th grade. So if you're a late bloomer and haven't caught on to reading by then, you are SOL, doomed to be hauled along, increasingly confused by what everyone else is getting.
Well said GotHereAsQuickAsICould. I agree with all this.
And remember, the incentive for the teachers -- who are evaluated on "student progress" -- must show that these lower kids are progressing. And they must work hard to get as many of them to pass state testing as possible. So most of the attention is going to the slower learners.
I agree this system doesn't really help anyone. The slower learners/ SpEd students would be better off in a smaller classroom with more of a "workshop" format where they are getting help from SpEd teachers/aides. And where they can read material AT THEIR LEVEL rather than be pushed along with advanced or grade-level reading material.
In this awful Social Studies class my son has, I've also noticed that my son will get 100 on a test, but then the teacher will look for things to nitpick to take away his 100. For instance, even though my son's handwriting was perfectly legible, he will take off a point here and there for handwriting. I highly doubt he is doing this for low performers. And my son, who is a gifted student, actually does have trouble with fine motor skills...and that made me mad because it actually was his best handwriting...but these little rules are applied only to top students. THAT is the extent of differentiation top students...not more challenging CONTENT.
The checklist does not define any individual child, though.
Is he functioning academically at the same level as his class? Accommodations do not mean he is not, just that he needs help to get there.
Forgot to answer that part. ABSOLUTELY NOT. This is 7th grade and his reading level is probably 4th grade (and still, he is reading words, not comprehending). By observation, he is totally out of it and not functioning or comprehending anything going on. I see this in social situations; my son tells me his observations from the class. Do not be naive and think that kids do not know what is going on. My son, who sits next to him, has also seen his test scores, which are in the 30-65% range (and he gets a modified test).
In this case, I think the school is actually trying to get the parents to agree to full-time resource room for academic subjects -- so it's OK to give him grades below B -- to prove to the parents that "the IEP is NOT working". The parents are in a bit of denial as to his needs and are poor advocates (so their IEP may not be as strong as others). They always assume everything is "fine" when he does not seem to be progressing or learning in the regular classes. They just play the happy card because they want him mainstreamed. I don't think they are doing their kid any favors, he has become LESS socially accepted over time (in elementary, all the kids accepted him and were nice to him and included him; in middle school, I think the other kids either ignore or get annoyed by him). Remember, middle school is a crazy time for all kids, and getting him out of the crazy social environment during these years (and putting him with kids more like him where he can make friendships) would probably be beneficial. If I were the parents, I would move him to the larger district in the nearby town where they have a full-time program for these kids; or send him to a private SpEd school where they can better serve his needs and where he can develop real friendships. If they advocate well for him, they can get this paid for by our district. Being in denial doesn't help him.
I really don't understand such extensive interest in a child who is not yours! And you are not his parent, nor have they apparently asked you for advice.
I really don't understand such extensive interest in a child who is not yours! And you are not his parent, nor have they apparently asked you for advice.
Umm, he sits next to my kid and my kid has had to be his role model on/off for years. So, yes I am interested. I'm allowed to have an opinion, since it affects my child. Perhaps if there was tracking, and my bright/gifted child was allowed to take advanced classes, I wouldn't have the same level of information or interest. But when thee kids are placed next to my kid, my kid is expected to help him and be a role model, and the class is slowed down for him (and 5 other SpecEd kids in the room, but he is the most severe), the class dynamic is different, the pacing is slower, my kids GRADES get dragged down by group projects...I have a reasons to have an opinion. Maybe it is "working" for the SpecEd kids, but it isn't "working" for my child, who thinks the class is babyish and cakewalk easy. Do you really think it is random that he is placed next to my son? And when I asked that seating be rotated throughout the year, my request was ignored...because gifted kids have no rights or plan (not a state requiring IEP for gifted students), but IEP students do.
Umm, he sits next to my kid and my kid has had to be his role model on/off for years. So, yes I am interested. I'm allowed to have an opinion, since it affects my child. Perhaps if there was tracking, and my bright/gifted child was allowed to take advanced classes, I wouldn't have the same level of information or interest. But when thee kids are placed next to my kid, my kid is expected to help him and be a role model, and the class is slowed down for him (and 5 other SpecEd kids in the room, but he is the most severe), the class dynamic is different, the pacing is slower, my kids GRADES get dragged down by group projects...I have a reasons to have an opinion. Maybe it is "working" for the SpecEd kids, but it isn't "working" for my child, who thinks the class is babyish and cakewalk easy. Do you really think it is random that he is placed next to my son? And when I asked that seating be rotated throughout the year, my request was ignored...because gifted kids have no rights or plan (not a state requiring IEP for gifted students), but IEP students do.
I can understand that it's possible (note I said possible, not probable, not certain) that the pace of the class is slower b/c of these special ed kids, but how does that affect your kid's grade? And no, I do not think it's some vast conspiracy that this child is seated next to your son.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
