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I can understand that it's possible (note I said possible, not probable, not certain) that the pace of the class is slower b/c of these special ed kids, but how does that affect your kid's grade?
I explained the group project situation above. The SpEd kids are not doing their work properly on a GROUP project (nor was the aide or SpEd teacher helping them). The group, pulled down by 2 kids that couldn't add value or even do their part, got a D. On the 2nd project, the group got an F. That time, the kids were told by teacher if they wanted to pull up the group grade, they needed to come after school to re-do the work and pull up their grade. My son went after school for 2 days and pulled up the grade -- to an A. He was the ONLY one re-doing the work, and all 4 kids got their grade changed from F to A. Why should my son have to be punished with after school work (missing his sports practice) when he was re-doing the work of SpEd kids?!!! (Oh and guess who got "Student of the Month" that month? -- one of those kids! Yet my son was doing his work!).
I also explained above that instead of differentiating CONTENT, the teacher differentiates the way he grades. He doesn't seem to want to give my son A's even though he aces the material so easily. He takes away from his 100 and takes points off for "handwriting" even though it was perfectly legible. He is LOOKING for ways to grade my son harder, rather than giving him work that actually challenges him. He just sees my son aceing the material at every turn and doesn't like that. He's actually a nice guy, but does not seem to know how to differentiate effectively -- but I don't think most teachers do it well -- especially when the priority is clearly the students on the low end.
Last edited by snuffybear; 04-30-2014 at 09:34 AM..
I can understand that it's possible (note I said possible, not probable, not certain) that the pace of the class is slower b/c of these special ed kids, but how does that affect your kid's grade? And no, I do not think it's some vast conspiracy that this child is seated next to your son.
You are being idealistic and naive. Yes, it absolutely is and another teacher told me -- when my son sat next to him most of 4th grade -- that the teachers ARE instructed to find good role models and seat the inclusion kids next to the role models. I think our school is more advanced on compliance with IDEA than yours, and perhaps your consultancy work is giving you an idealistic view. Yes, things CAN work perfectly...but the real world doesn't always work that way.
Last edited by snuffybear; 04-30-2014 at 09:35 AM..
No, I'm not a teacher or sub for a school district, but I have been on a school improvement committee for a political organization for about 25 years, and have been the chair for probably 20 of those years. I've also taught teen parenting in high school.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
I really don't understand such extensive interest in a child who is not yours! And you are not his parent, nor have they apparently asked you for advice.
Let me see if I can explain. As a chair of a school improvement committee for a political organization it could make a world of difference if you were able to understand this.
Like many parents, I care that all children get a top notch education.
Naturally, I want the kids I put to bed at night to acquire the knowledge and skills they will need to be successful in an increasingly competitive world.
But my heart goes out to the all the kids. I have grown to know many of them and want them to have a good life as well.
And not to put too fine a point on it, but these are the kids ours will marry, work with, live with, have to support if they can't support themselves.
For example, I very much want all kids to learn to read well. You can hardly get a custodial job these days if you can't read. (Have to be able to read and comprehend the labels on cleaning supplies, for example.) CNAs are expected to read and follow patient care instructions.
Being functional illiterate presents all sorts of barriers to a good life.
IMO, if a student isn't able to read and comprehend at grade level, that's where the time should be spent. Shoving them into social studies classes with a modified curriculum and hoping the more advanced students sitting next to them will haul them along is ridiculous. What a waste of everyone's time.
The advanced student will eventually get to those AP and Honors classes. But where does that leave his study buddy?
We are setting the slower students up to fail by rushing them along at a pace they aren't able to keep up.
The world does not have a modified curriculum for SpEd folks. If you can't read, you are SOL.
10% of Harvard's students are international. That means 90% come from the US. And let's look at the top engineering schools in the US from that list of world universities. The first five on the list are US universities.
(All figures from US News 2010 guidebook)
MIT: 9%
Stanford: 7%
UC Berekely: 4%
Caltech: 11% (of a very small student body)
Princeton: 10%
Now let's look at the rest in the top 20%
UCLA: 4%
Georgia Tech: 5%
Carnegie Mellon: 15%
University of Texas Austin: 4%
University of Michigan: 5%
Cornell: 8%
University of Illinois Urbana Champaign: 6%
Northwestern U: 5%
UC Santa Barbara: 1%
Note this percentage is students from all countries outside the US, in all majors. Apparently the US colleges are having no problem filling their seats with US educated students.
They may filling those freshman seats but how many graduate? How many graduate with science and math degrees? How many go on for advanced degrees?
"Citizens of other countries now receive more than half the Ph.D.s awarded by U.S. universities in engineering, computer science and physics, on top of earning one third of all college degrees in science and engineering. In certain subfields, the disparity is much higher: in electrical engineering, for example, foreign students received 65 percent of all doctoral diplomas in 2001.
These figures should inspire alarm, not pride. The unpleasant truth is that the U.S. public education system simply does not produce enough high school graduates who are qualified for college work of any kind, let alone students with a vigorous appetite for math and the sciences. The full depth of America's educational failure is actually masked by the diversity of nationalities among grad students in those fields: Of the 1,777 physics doctorates awarded in 2011, for example, 743 went to temporary visa holders from many lands—and that figure excludes foreign nationals who had won permanent resident status."
Folks who are dealing with these matters on a regular basis are not at all assured that all is well with the public school system.
^^Suppose you tell me what your credentials are, GotHere. . . . So far, all I've gotten is "parent who thinks her kid is getting shortchanged by US ed system; thinks India has better system".
This is the first I've heard you express any concern for any kids other than your own. And now we're going from "Special Ed" to "functionally illiterate"?
As far as "The world does not have a modified curriculum for SpEd folks.", let me tell you a story. I once worked at a facility for DD and emotionally disturbed students. Our director liked to say "The incidence of mental retardation (term still in vogue at the time) goes down in adulthood. You don't know the IQ of the guy pumping your gas". He said that over and over again. We don't separate adults out by their perceived intelligence, like we do kids.
Do I think reading is fundamental? Of course I do. But I don't get your point.
"Citizens of other countries now receive more than half the Ph.D.s awarded by U.S. universities in engineering, computer science and physics, on top of earning one third of all college degrees in science and engineering. In certain subfields, the disparity is much higher: in electrical engineering, for example, foreign students received 65 percent of all doctoral diplomas in 2001.
These figures should inspire alarm, not pride. The unpleasant truth is that the U.S. public education system simply does not produce enough high school graduates who are qualified for college work of any kind, let alone students with a vigorous appetite for math and the sciences. The full depth of America's educational failure is actually masked by the diversity of nationalities among grad students in those fields: Of the 1,777 physics doctorates awarded in 2011, for example, 743 went to temporary visa holders from many lands—and that figure excludes foreign nationals who had won permanent resident status."
Folks who are dealing with these matters on a regular basis are not at all assured that all is well with the public school system.
How many Chinese and others graduate from college in their country and come to the US to go to grad school? Why look at this:
The report is based on a pan-India study of 60,000 graduates across colleges.**
So these "brightest and best" students come to the US for graduate degrees. Thus it has ALWAYS been. I remember back in the early 60s, when our next door neighbor married a guy from Lebanon that she met at Penn State.
Here are the countries ahead of us. Countries with the highest college graduation rates - Canada, 55.8 percent - CSMonitor.com
Now I have read that some countries count their college grad statistics differently than the US, counting associates degrees and certificates as well as bachelor's degrees as "college graduation". Study: 2 In 5 Americans Earning Degrees After High School : The Two-Way : NPR
**This may seem like a trick, but the fact is, many Americans earn noncredit stand-alone certificates — for example, in trades and technical areas — after high school that give them a shot at a better job. Most countries that post higher attainment rates than the U.S. include these kinds of credentials in their tally. The U.S. Census Bureau plans to start counting these certificates in the education statistics. Counting these certificates could bring the totals for young adults up to 60 percent by 2025, assuming current trends continue.**
^^Suppose you tell me what your credentials are, GotHere. . . . So far, all I've gotten is "parent who thinks her kid is getting shortchanged by US ed system; thinks India has better system".
This is the first I've heard you express any concern for any kids other than your own. And now we're going from "Special Ed" to "functionally illiterate"?
As far as "The world does not have a modified curriculum for SpEd folks.", let me tell you a story. I once worked at a facility for DD and emotionally disturbed students. Our director liked to say "The incidence of mental retardation (term still in vogue at the time) goes down in adulthood. You don't know the IQ of the guy pumping your gas". He said that over and over again. We don't separate adults out by their perceived intelligence, like we do kids.
Do I think reading is fundamental? Of course I do. But I don't get your point.
I realize that you don't get the point and don't appear to grasp a lot of what is being discussed here. Which seems odd given that you've apparently served on a school improvement committee for a political organization for over twenty years.
Of course, no one knows the IQ of the guy pumping gas. And no, we don't separate out folks by their IQ scores as adults. We separate them by skills and abilities, degrees and experience. He's pumping gas for crying out loud, not designing airplanes. Sad to say, gas pumping jobs are few and far between these days.
I have a lot of concern for kids other than my own. I worked as a Vocational Rehabilitation Counselor for years. I worked with a lot of SpEd kids that were functionally illiterate. I worked with a lot of kids that could have been excellent car mechanics, plumbers, etc. had they not spent years being hauled along in increasingly confusing classes. If they had gotten a decent grounding in reading and basic math, instead of pretending they would all be heading to college if only we modified the curriculum and expectations enough.
The parents on this thread are saying that things are not working out just fine for their students. International tests are saying things are not working out just fine for American students. When one third of all U.S. degrees in science and engineering are earned by foreign nationals, things are not working out just fine.
Despite your self-proclaimed expertise gained from being on a school improvement committee, it seems you are vested in proclaiming that things are working out just fine for both the the kids at the top and at the bottom. I assure you they are not.
Just exactly what school improvements is your committee working on anyway?
What goes on in college is not part of K-12 Federal funding.
I think GotHereAsQuickAsICould is trying to prove that China and India do a better job of preparing their students for college than the US. This is, of course, untrue.
I realize that you don't get the point and don't appear to grasp a lot of what is being discussed here. Which seems odd given that you've apparently served on a school improvement committee for a political organization for over twenty years.
Of course, no one knows the IQ of the guy pumping gas. And no, we don't separate out folks by their IQ scores as adults. We separate them by skills and abilities, degrees and experience. He's pumping gas for crying out loud, not designing airplanes. Sad to say, gas pumping jobs are few and far between these days.
I have a lot of concern for kids other than my own. I worked as a Vocational Rehabilitation Counselor for years. I worked with a lot of SpEd kids that were functionally illiterate. I worked with a lot of kids that could have been excellent car mechanics, plumbers, etc. had they not spent years being hauled along in increasingly confusing classes. If they had gotten a decent grounding in reading and basic math, instead of pretending they would all be heading to college if only we modified the curriculum and expectations enough.
The parents on this thread are saying that things are not working out just fine for their students. International tests are saying things are not working out just fine for American students. When one third of all U.S. degrees in science and engineering are earned by foreign nationals, things are not working out just fine.
Despite your self-proclaimed expertise gained from being on a school improvement committee, it seems you are vested in proclaiming that things are working out just fine for both the the kids at the top and at the bottom. I assure you they are not.
Just exactly what school improvements is your committee working on anyway?
You know, that's funny. My two kids were never tapped for these "gifted" programs, yet one was invited by Rocky Mountain Talent Search to take the SATs in 8th grade based on her 6th grade math scores. This, despite that her school didn't think her intelligent enough to do even honors math in 6th grade. She now has a master's in public health with an emphasis on epidemiology, you know, math. My other daughter wasn't tapped, either, though she did get placed into some honors classes. (They didn't have TAG for much of her ele/middle school years.) She now has a doctorate in physical therapy. So despite the fact that neither of them were in any kind of gifted program, they seem to have sort of done OK. We've got one parent of a 7th grader on here who seems to think her kid's future is being shortchanged by having to be in a social studies class with special ed students in 7th grade. There are a few others here who seem to be in agreement. That's hardly a consensus.
As for the rest of this post, you're moving the goalposts yet again. Now we're talking about trades rather than college. Most functional illiterates are not capable of being car mechanics (which requires quite a bit of computer knowledge these days) or plumbers. We have discussed this trades vs college issue ad nauseum on this board.
My committee's work is none of your business, since you'll just use the information to mock me. I explained my education credentials.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 04-30-2014 at 02:46 PM..
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