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If anything, grading on a curve motivated students to try harder, because it only takes 1 high-achiever to throw off the curve. My first and only B ("Dear God, what is that funny looking letter next to my name??!!") was in a curve-graded class. I did manage to negotiate an A- but I'll never make that mistake again.
But FWIW, I've only had 2 professors who graded on a curve; I'd say the laziness factor was pretty much equal as classes that used a standard grading system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saritaschihuahua
That's it! Pure laziness. The moment a professor grades on a curve, the few that simply make an effort often end up being at the very top, no matter how hard the subject matter might be. So many students nowadays refuse to do anything.
Last edited by Ginge McFantaPants; 07-15-2014 at 10:35 AM..
If anything, grading on a curve motivated students to try harder, because it only takes 1 high-achiever to throw off the curve. My first and only B ("Dear God, what is that funny looking letter next to my name??!!") was in a curve-graded class. I did manage to negotiate an A- but I'll never make that mistake again.
But FWIW, I've only had 2 professors who graded on a curve; I'd say the laziness factor was pretty much equal as classes that used a standard grading system.
I didn't know that. Perhaps grading everything on a curve is not at all a bad idea!
I'm no longer in college, which is why I'm talking this way. I've seen the change in students over time - laziness, refusal to do homework, refusal to read assignments, requests for extra credit, requests for open book tests, requests for a review of **EXACTLY** what the test will have on it, and so on.
Why do I have no compassion? Because students have become the laziest people on the planet. Next I expect them to stay in bed all day and have teachers visit them at home or in their dormrooms, stroke their hair, bring them food, excuse them from ever having to open a book, and whisper all the answers to the test in their ears.
Seriously, it's gotten insane.
You didn't answer my question again.
Anyway you are not the only who is no longer in school. Not all of us share your dim view of the newer generations.
I hope you answer my question this time. The question was "Should we put all the responsibility in the student for learning especially whenhis whole class is failing or not engaged in the material?
I agree. A year and a half ago, after a 16 year hiatus, I went back to college to finish my degree. Perhaps my recollection is off, but I have been shocked at how few of my classmates even make an effort; in pretty much all of my classes, only about a third of us are participating and turning in assignments! Although, I don't mind so much when I have a professor who grades on a curve
You could be biased since back then you were not comparing your generation with anything. You also have more knowledge and experience now than those younger students. Some students are probably not comfortable with public speaking yet.
I was very "lazy" in school. But it wasn't because I didn't want to learn. Go back a few of my posts and you will see a list of my reasons. Difference between me and most other students was that I spent most of my own time learning and researching new things outside of school. I consider that a case of me resisting the negative effects of school on a student's learning disposition. I simply wrote off school and cared zero about grades. Other kids were not so lucky, and fell into the trap of learning for the grade -- so that's how they "learned to learn" for the remainder of their lives: only when an external motivator is present.
I have taught in a middle school setting and heard all the teachers who complained about "bratty" kids and "lazy" kids. These teachers were often ones that would give loads of homework, strict grading, punitive discipline, and often curriculum that was completely disconnected from the students' lives. The teachers would complain because they couldn't "control" the students enough or "make them" want to do a huge list of stuff. It was always "the students' fault," never their fault of course, never an issue with the curriculum or procedures or structure of school itself.
Saritas, you seem incapable of fathoming that the problem may not be with the kids, but the structure that is imposed upon them. I could get middle school students hooked on the subject matter, but I had to make it relevant and interesting. I also didn't grade them - I simply gave them feedback on how to improve. I watched these students come to life and enjoy my class, and do work on their own.
You can't "make" anyone learn or do something. The more you try, the more you will fail. That is the problem with our school model. We try to "demand" instead of "support." Thankfully, the kids rebel against this poor model. Expecting them to sit quietly and respect the poor excuse that is currently school is not admirable or desirable.
I'm not saying there aren't other factors in a kid's "laziness." There are. But we can make a HUGE improvement by changing our approach as teachers, administrators, and parents. School should be a place where we support student growth, but as it is, we are just snuffing out their desire to learn and then complaining that they don't want to learn.
You could be biased since back then you were not comparing your generation with anything. You also have more knowledge and experience now than those younger students. Some students are probably not comfortable with public speaking yet.
The first time around, I really wasn't even paying attention to how the rest of the class was doing, so that could very well be. But looking at the grade distributions posted online, a surprising portion simply aren't handing in the assignments.
Anyway you are not the only who is no longer in school. Not all of us share your dim view of the newer generations.
I hope you answer my question this time. The question was "Should we put all the responsibility in the student for learning especially whenhis whole class is failing or not engaged in the material?
If an entire class is failing, either the students are not doing their work, study and research, or the professor has got to be some kind of confused.
I've never been in a class that was all failing. There are always students doing well. Nowadays, it's commonly Chinese, Indian, and other foreign or American born students of families that are from other places, or American students who have a strong study ethic.
I was very "lazy" in school. But it wasn't because I didn't want to learn. Go back a few of my posts and you will see a list of my reasons. Difference between me and most other students was that I spent most of my own time learning and researching new things outside of school. I consider that a case of me resisting the negative effects of school on a student's learning disposition. I simply wrote off school and cared zero about grades. Other kids were not so lucky, and fell into the trap of learning for the grade -- so that's how they "learned to learn" for the remainder of their lives: only when an external motivator is present.
I have taught in a middle school setting and heard all the teachers who complained about "bratty" kids and "lazy" kids. These teachers were often ones that would give loads of homework, strict grading, punitive discipline, and often curriculum that was completely disconnected from the students' lives. The teachers would complain because they couldn't "control" the students enough or "make them" want to do a huge list of stuff. It was always "the students' fault," never their fault of course, never an issue with the curriculum or procedures or structure of school itself.
Saritas, you seem incapable of fathoming that the problem may not be with the kids, but the structure that is imposed upon them. I could get middle school students hooked on the subject matter, but I had to make it relevant and interesting. I also didn't grade them - I simply gave them feedback on how to improve. I watched these students come to life and enjoy my class, and do work on their own.
You can't "make" anyone learn or do something. The more you try, the more you will fail. That is the problem with our school model. We try to "demand" instead of "support." Thankfully, the kids rebel against this poor model. Expecting them to sit quietly and respect the poor excuse that is currently school is not admirable or desirable.
I'm not saying there aren't other factors in a kid's "laziness." There are. But we can make a HUGE improvement by changing our approach as teachers, administrators, and parents. School should be a place where we support student growth, but as it is, we are just snuffing out their desire to learn and then complaining that they don't want to learn.
I'm 44 and a student at a CC and a University. My Harvard educated friend was shocked to find out that my CC teacher did not grade on a curve like most of hiss classes at Harvard.
I was shocked that Harvard would grade anything on a curve.
So are you saying that if a student just doesn't feel like studying the subject matter, he should be catered to?
I think the idea is that most subjects are interesting enough to engage most students if they are presented in an effective matter. It's not about catering to the lazy boy in the class but to the majority of students.
Education like other subjects is being researched to find more effective ways to deliver information to students.
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