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I guess we all forget about the "education crisis" that we experienced after the Sputnik launch.
Before our "greatest generation" won WWII, they were known as the "Lost Generation" of the Depression.
Conclusion: The further into the past we look, the rosier our memories become.
Several posters, I think, have hit on the key point: we try to education way more children than we did "back in the day". While this is generally a positive thing, it allows for an unromantic comparison between today's "average" student and the elite and/or segregated student from the early 20th c.
That was just us showing our competitive side. We held our own in the space race.
While I do agree that we reflect fondly on the past, I know that college and high school have dummied down severely. The average college student has cut the amount of study/homework they do by 1/3. I know that I teach less chemistry than I learned in high school and the NGSS (next generation science standards for those who don't know) will have me teaching even less. We're trying to put the thought cart before the knowledge horse. You can't teach kids to think if they don't have anything in their heads to think about.
I do believe a big part of the problem is that we educate more students today. In order to get the extra kids to pass, we've spent our time and our energy on them and dummied down the material. I don't think anyone is winning.
Good point. Kids have way more contact with peers through social media these days than in the past. They seem to have a need today to be in constant contact and have the constant approval of their peers for everything they do like has never been seen before. It'll be interesting to see how this change plays out. One thing I can say is we're raising team players. In fact they don't know what to do if they're on their own.
I know my dd is NEVER without her phone. I swear I should just have the thing surgically implanted, lol. Work must be torture for her as she has to hand her phone over when she gets there. I'm glad that they do that. It gives her some time when she's dealing with people face to face.
Yes! Everything! They take selfies all day long, and send them for approval and okay. They spend the whole day being amazed at themselves and one another for absolutely nothing of importance. They make inane comments on Twitter and other sites and try to out-impress one another with the most rude, crude, or idiotic statement of all. They spend all day long on crap using their electronics.
That was just us showing our competitive side. We held our own in the space race.
While I do agree that we reflect fondly on the past, I know that college and high school have dummied down severely. The average college student has cut the amount of study/homework they do by 1/3. I know that I teach less chemistry than I learned in high school and the NGSS (next generation science standards for those who don't know) will have me teaching even less. We're trying to put the thought cart before the knowledge horse. You can't teach kids to think if they don't have anything in their heads to think about.
I do believe a big part of the problem is that we educate more students today. In order to get the extra kids to pass, we've spent our time and our energy on them and dummied down the material. I don't think anyone is winning.
True. But it really is that they're goofing off and lazy.
I have a friend who teaches in middle school and cannot get her students to do their homework or read any assignments. They return to the classroom each day looking sad and saying, "I'm sorry, it was too long," or "I couldn't finish it," or "I had too much other homework." Yes, of course it was, because they spent all afternoon and evening taking selfies and sending them, and talking sh** to one another on their electronics, That's why they had no time for anything educational. Parents seriously need to take electronics away from their kids when they get home. Heck, I'd take away their cell phones, and have the house computers, laptops and tablets all in the living room or kitchen, with the screen facing everyone who walks in.
True. But it really is that they're goofing off and lazy.
I have a friend who teaches in middle school and cannot get her students to do their homework or read any assignments. They return to the classroom each day looking sad and saying, "I'm sorry, it was too long," or "I couldn't finish it," or "I had too much other homework." Yes, of course it was, because they spent all afternoon and evening taking selfies and sending them, and talking sh** to one another on their electronics, That's why they had no time for anything educational. Parents seriously need to take electronics away from their kids when they get home. Heck, I'd take away their cell phones, and have the house computers, laptops and tablets all in the living room or kitchen, with the screen facing everyone who walks in.
ITA! I've said many times that the #1 thing we need in education is to be able to hold students accountable. Unfortunately, what we're doing is slowing down because they aren't learning the material (because they aren't working at learning it). We just keep going slower and slower and slower thinking that they'll start learning when what they do is less and less and less. This really isn't working.
IMO the #1 problem in education is lack of student effort. They have no urgency to learn the material or finish assignments. They expect someone else to fix it for them. There is a push in my school to take late assignments under the guise of grading the material NOT whether it was on time. Yes, they are lazy. We really need to stop letting them be lazy. We have to start expecting them to work to learn.
I'm to the point that I think we need Saturday school. When not doing your work during the week takes away half of your weekend, maybe they'll start doing it. I don't know what to do to motivate them as things are now but I refuse to slow down any more than the government has already slowed me down for kids who are just lazy.
This is the real problem in education in this country. Laziness on all levels including college and we keep accommodating it when what we need to do is penalize it.
There are a few things that I loved about the charter school my kids attended and one was "choice time". It was basically recess but kids got to choose what they did between inside and outside activities. However, if they hadn't finished their homework, they had only one choice. They got to go to the homework room. They made their choice by not doing their homework. I would love something like this on the high school level. Maybe put half an hour after lunch just for socializing BUT make the kids who owe detention or assignments to teachers go to ISS or that teacher to work on the assignments.
I agree on parents but we have no control over what parents do and are stuck working within the parameters set for us. You're preaching to the choir here while the ones who need to hear the message aren't in attendance.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 07-24-2014 at 08:01 AM..
ITA! I've said many times that the #1 thing we need in education is to be able to hold students accountable. Unfortunately, what we're doing is slowing down because they aren't learning the material (because they aren't working at learning it). We just keep going slower and slower and slower thinking that they'll start learning when what they do is less and less and less. This really isn't working.
IMO the #1 problem in education is lack of student effort. They have no urgency to learn the material or finish assignments. They expect someone else to fix it for them. There is a push in my school to take late assignments under the guise of grading the material NOT whether it was on time. Yes, they are lazy. We really need to stop letting them be lazy. We have to start expecting them to work to learn.
I'm to the point that I think we need Saturday school. When not doing your work during the week takes away half of your weekend, maybe they'll start doing it. I don't know what to do to motivate them as things are now but I refuse to slow down any more than the government has already slowed me down for kids who are just lazy.
This is the real problem in education in this country. Laziness on all levels including college and we keep accommodating it when what we need to do is penalize it.
There are a few things that I loved about the charter school my kids attended and one was "choice time". It was basically recess but kids got to choose what they did between inside and outside activities. However, if they hadn't finished their homework, they had only one choice. They got to go to the homework room. They made their choice by not doing their homework. I would love something like this on the high school level. Maybe put half an hour after lunch just for socializing BUT make the kids who owe detention or assignments to teachers go to ISS or that teacher to work on the assignments.
You have those students that will go on to college and into law, engineering, medicine.
You have those students that will go on to college and into nursing or teaching.
You have those students that will go on to college and get a 1 or 2 year program cert/degree.
You have those students that will not go on to college but work in the trades.
Yet, all these types of students are sitting in the same room with the same "expectations".
All these students have to "master" the same academic subjects regardless of their future choices.
The student who wants to be a welder does not need 10 hour school days, 7 days a week.
And what is so wrong with a "C" grade for this type of student ?
You have students with no intention of going to college pushed into a college prep curriculum.
You have those students that will go on to college and into law, engineering, medicine.
You have those students that will go on to college and into nursing or teaching.
You have those students that will go on to college and get a 1 or 2 year program cert/degree.
You have those students that will not go on to college but work in the trades.
Yet, all these types of students are sitting in the same room with the same "expectations".
All these students have to "master" the same academic subjects regardless of their future choices.
The student who wants to be a welder does not need 10 hour school days, 7 days a week.
And what is so wrong with a "C" grade for this type of student ?
You have students with no intention of going to college pushed into a college prep curriculum.
That's one of my other issues. But I do believe failure to hold students accountable is #1. I think we're barking up the wrong tree putting everyone on a college bound track. Not everyone is college material and not everyone who is even wants to go to college. We need to go back to tracking and vocational ed while holding students accountable for learning.
I agree with you on grades. C's weren't something to be embarrassed about when I was in high school. It was understood that students have different strengths. You were expected to do what was needed to pass all of your classes but it was understood you'd to better in some than others. Straight A's were rare. It was unusual for the class valedictorian to have a 4.0. I want to say the valedictorian of my class had something like a 3.8. Contrast to my school last year with 7 4.0 students who all earned the title "Valedictorian". With only 140 students in the graduating class, "Valedictorian" means top 5%. When I graduated the valedictorian was the top student out of 460 students or the top 0.2%. Things have really changed.
You have those students that will go on to college and into law, engineering, medicine.
You have those students that will go on to college and into nursing or teaching.
You have those students that will go on to college and get a 1 or 2 year program cert/degree.
You have those students that will not go on to college but work in the trades.
Yet, all these types of students are sitting in the same room with the same "expectations".
All these students have to "master" the same academic subjects regardless of their future choices.
The student who wants to be a welder does not need 10 hour school days, 7 days a week.
And what is so wrong with a "C" grade for this type of student ?
You have students with no intention of going to college pushed into a college prep curriculum.
But you have to understand...
The current "one-size-fits-all" program is the cheapest way to process mass quantities of students through the system. Doesn't matter that it isn't meeting the needs of far too many young folks. Vocational skills are expensive to teach, requiring teachers with rare certifications and facilities with lots of expensive equipment. Kids going into the trades can sink into student loan debt at "career schools" nowadays if that's their future path. After all, student loans are the new indentured servitude. Gets the new workers behind the 8-ball well before their first paycheck.
Anyway, we just have to reserve an ever larger share of the education budget for the growing layers of administration and bureaucrats. It's so important to have all these offices filled with nonteaching "professionals" and their clerical staffs to tell teachers what to do next and how to do it. And "what to do" is to teach to the test.
No sense in spending the education budget on schools, facilities, teaching materials and that sort of thing. </sarcasm>
ITA! I've said many times that the #1 thing we need in education is to be able to hold students accountable. Unfortunately, what we're doing is slowing down because they aren't learning the material (because they aren't working at learning it). We just keep going slower and slower and slower thinking that they'll start learning when what they do is less and less and less. This really isn't working.
IMO the #1 problem in education is lack of student effort. They have no urgency to learn the material or finish assignments. They expect someone else to fix it for them. There is a push in my school to take late assignments under the guise of grading the material NOT whether it was on time. Yes, they are lazy. We really need to stop letting them be lazy. We have to start expecting them to work to learn.
I'm to the point that I think we need Saturday school. When not doing your work during the week takes away half of your weekend, maybe they'll start doing it. I don't know what to do to motivate them as things are now but I refuse to slow down any more than the government has already slowed me down for kids who are just lazy.
This is the real problem in education in this country. Laziness on all levels including college and we keep accommodating it when what we need to do is penalize it.
There are a few things that I loved about the charter school my kids attended and one was "choice time". It was basically recess but kids got to choose what they did between inside and outside activities. However, if they hadn't finished their homework, they had only one choice. They got to go to the homework room. They made their choice by not doing their homework. I would love something like this on the high school level. Maybe put half an hour after lunch just for socializing BUT make the kids who owe detention or assignments to teachers go to ISS or that teacher to work on the assignments.
I agree on parents but we have no control over what parents do and are stuck working within the parameters set for us. You're preaching to the choir here while the ones who need to hear the message aren't in attendance.
Perhaps a little strictness is in order for all kids. Parents feel they have to allow all kids to do their electronic fun all day and night (I don't really understand that part at all). But goofing off all day on electronics affects how much they learn in the long run. My sister allows no computers in the kids' bedrooms, and cell phones, Ipads, TV, music, etc. is taken until all homework and study is finished. That's where I got the idea.
You have those students that will go on to college and into law, engineering, medicine.
You have those students that will go on to college and into nursing or teaching.
You have those students that will go on to college and get a 1 or 2 year program cert/degree.
You have those students that will not go on to college but work in the trades.
Yet, all these types of students are sitting in the same room with the same "expectations".
All these students have to "master" the same academic subjects regardless of their future choices.
The student who wants to be a welder does not need 10 hour school days, 7 days a week.
And what is so wrong with a "C" grade for this type of student ?
You have students with no intention of going to college pushed into a college prep curriculum.
Yeah, because nurses and teachers aren't quite so bright, right?
The student who wants to be a welder may will change his/her mind at some point in time and decide to become an engineer!
The current "one-size-fits-all" program is the cheapest way to process mass quantities of students through the system. Doesn't matter that it isn't meeting the needs of far too many young folks. Vocational skills are expensive to teach, requiring teachers with rare certifications and facilities with lots of expensive equipment. Kids going into the trades can sink into student loan debt at "career schools" nowadays if that's their future path. After all, student loans are the new indentured servitude. Gets the new workers behind the 8-ball well before their first paycheck.
Anyway, we just have to reserve an ever larger share of the education budget for the growing layers of administration and bureaucrats. It's so important to have all these offices filled with nonteaching "professionals" and their clerical staffs to tell teachers what to do next and how to do it. And "what to do" is to teach to the test.
No sense in spending the education budget on schools, facilities, teaching materials and that sort of thing. </sarcasm>
Yep.
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