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Old 07-20-2014, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,540,621 times
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It is obvious that schools cannot fix everything WRT education. Schools cannot be everything to everybody. When you face a situation like this in industry, you don't try to fix it all or lay blame. You identify the top issues and address them. Once they're fixed, you go on to your next top issues. My question is what do you think are the top three things that education (ie schools, teachers, politicians) should address? Let's leave parents out of this because we cannot control what parents do. What can the schools do?
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Old 07-20-2014, 10:01 AM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,126 posts, read 16,159,824 times
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Top three issues in education:

1- Testing has become the focal points of schools instead of actual education.
2- Teaching to the bottom of the class is a tremendous disservice to the middle and top. Our best and brightest are not getting what they need and deserve.
3- The image of teachers and current pattern of public distain is crushing moral, plus discouraging the best and brightest from entering the field.
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Old 07-20-2014, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,481,831 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
It is obvious that schools cannot fix everything WRT education. Schools cannot be everything to everybody. When you face a situation like this in industry, you don't try to fix it all or lay blame. You identify the top issues and address them. Once they're fixed, you go on to your next top issues. My question is what do you think are the top three things that education (ie schools, teachers, politicians) should address? Let's leave parents out of this because we cannot control what parents do. What can the schools do?
There is a huge difference here between the corporate world and the education world.

Industries are not centrally managed by politicians.
IEEE and the Dept of Education are not even in the same realm of problem solvers.

They are two vastly different worlds and you have to learn to live within their boundaries.
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Old 07-20-2014, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,540,621 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
There is a huge difference here between the corporate world and the education world.

Industries are not centrally managed by politicians.
IEEE and the Dept of Education are not even in the same realm of problem solvers.

They are two vastly different worlds and you have to learn to live within their boundaries.
We're still free to handle problem solving the same way. Identify the highest priority issues and work on them as a team. As a teacher, I pick 3-4 units/labs to work on and improve every year. The rest I teach like I did last year. Next year I'll pick 3-4 different ones. Fixing problems is like draining a swamp. New high priority issues emerge as you fix old ones.

For me, my top two would be:

1) Enforcing discipline. If kids know that teachers will be supported if they send them to the office or take their cell phone, they're more likely to not be disruptive in class or doing things they shouldn't be.

2) Hold kids accountable. If they don't demonstrate mastery by the end of the year, then they go to summer school or repeat the class. IMO too many kids expect to be bailed out by someone when the problem is they are not putting in the effort.

3) Administration should support teachers. Too often they just cave to the first parent complaint and toss the teacher under the bus. Teachers have to be free to do their job and know that they will be backed by their administration.

These are things that can be done without going to committee or passing laws. There are other things that can be done too. Laws have their place. I think that testing is great as long as the test really tests what the students should be able to do. Meaningful test data could be used by teachers as feedback for their effectiveness but improving the tests isn't in my top 3. My top 3 can be handles within the school.
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Old 07-20-2014, 10:41 AM
 
425 posts, read 431,735 times
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1. Grading
Kids learn to not try again when they fail, kids learn to not take risks, kids learn to operate extrinsically, kids learn it's all about jumping through hoops, kids learn that you must compare yourself to others to obtain a sense of self-worth, kids have immense pressure on them to follow instructions and do it "for the sticker" instead of think and do for themselves. Kids get judged and "summed up" inaccurately and unfairly, which of course negatively affects their attitudes and psychology. kids do not learn to evaluate for themselves because they always have the teacher do it for them. kids have no say in their education because the teacher/curriculum decides it all.

2. Testing
Attempted enforcement of national standards and curriculum, takes away real teaching and learning time, takes away autonomy from teachers and students, places a value only on what can be "measured" by multiple choice tests (which is often the less important things). Crushes students mentally, emotionally, physically, and psychologically.

3. Homework
Immense pressures on students, makes them work 10++ hours a day instead of 7, teaches students to not like learning, heavily restricts student time to rest or do things they enjoy, or things that would otherwise build them up intellectually (or in any other relevant way). method of control, takes away student autonomy and health and well-being.

To a certain extent, these things can all be changed on a local level by teachers, parents, administrators, and students.
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,481,831 times
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Back in the day school went from 9-3 with 1 hour lunch.
So that's a 5 hour day. Still had time after school to play, do sports, etc. before dinner and then homework.

Today it's 8-3:30/4:00 over 7 hours with 30-40 minutes for lunch.
They are taking more classes (electives are at the elementary level and taught by content specialists in art/music)
And there's a good amount of teachers that give out homework like that's the only class these kids have.

There were times during my son's time in school where I put a stop to it and wrote a note to school for each of his teachers.
We extended the school hours and IMHO that means more is covered in school and less should be left to the child at home.
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Old 07-20-2014, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,540,621 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Back in the day school went from 9-3 with 1 hour lunch.
So that's a 5 hour day. Still had time after school to play, do sports, etc. before dinner and then homework.

Today it's 8-3:30/4:00 over 7 hours with 30-40 minutes for lunch.
They are taking more classes (electives are at the elementary level and taught by content specialists in art/music)
And there's a good amount of teachers that give out homework like that's the only class these kids have.

There were times during my son's time in school where I put a stop to it and wrote a note to school for each of his teachers.
We extended the school hours and IMHO that means more is covered in school and less should be left to the child at home.
The problem is that's not how it works. They didn't give us more time for each subject. They added more subjects. For example, we now teach computer skills to students. So there isn't extra time for math and reading. Teachers have to send home the same amount of homework as before or even if class time for that subject has been cut.

When I was in high school, we went to school from 7:30-2:10 and had six classes and 40 minutes for lunch. Where I teach, school is from 7:30-2:30 and there are 7 classes with 40 minutes for lunch (counting passing time in both cases). We had 60 minute classes. I teach 50 minute classes in spite of having a longer school day. That extra 10 minutes was used to get homework started. Now it's truly homework. If half of a student's classes assign homework, this works out to an EXTRA 35 minutes of homework per day PLUS homework for an additional class.
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Old 07-20-2014, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
8,069 posts, read 6,969,794 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Back in the day school went from 9-3 with 1 hour lunch.
So that's a 5 hour day. Still had time after school to play, do sports, etc. before dinner and then homework.

Today it's 8-3:30/4:00 over 7 hours with 30-40 minutes for lunch.
They are taking more classes (electives are at the elementary level and taught by content specialists in art/music)
And there's a good amount of teachers that give out homework like that's the only class these kids have.

There were times during my son's time in school where I put a stop to it and wrote a note to school for each of his teachers.
We extended the school hours and IMHO that means more is covered in school and less should be left to the child at home.
Because our primary focus now is to make schools daycares so both parents can work full time. Of course students are restless, those are ridiculous amount of hours in a classroom even for an adult.
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Old 07-20-2014, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Middle America
37,409 posts, read 53,576,256 times
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You are always, no matter what, going to run into the stumbling block of not being able to do anything about what parents do, what they do and do not teach or reinforce at home, what they do or do not expose their children to, what attitudes about learning they do or do not instill, what role they play in raising children who are capable of behaving in an acceptable manner for school, and what you, as an educator, are able to actually to do about any of it (which is little).

You can't say, "Leave the parents out of it," because that is an ENORMOUS part of the equation, a bigger factor than any other variable, really. In our current system, it's also the part of the equation that can't be addressed. Hence, brick wall.
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Old 07-20-2014, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,540,621 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
You are always, no matter what, going to run into the stumbling block of not being able to do anything about what parents do, what they do and do not teach or reinforce at home, what they do or do not expose their children to, what attitudes about learning they do or do not instill, what role they play in raising children who are capable of behaving in an acceptable manner for school, and what you, as an educator, are able to actually to do about any of it (which is little).

You can't say, "Leave the parents out of it," because that is an ENORMOUS part of the equation, a bigger factor than any other variable, really. In our current system, it's also the part of the equation that can't be addressed. Hence, brick wall.
I meant leave them out of it as in we can't control what they do. I'm asking what can schools/teachers do to improve the situation while recognizing that we cannot fix everything. I'm asking what can we fix? What should we fix? I know we can't fix parents so I'm saying don't try.
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