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Here in Texas we dropped the Algebra II requirements.
Those planning to go to college can take that and classes beyond.
And vo-tech is making it's way back into HS thanks to the Federal push for CTE.
It gives those students who do not plan to attend college an edge.
Cosmetology with certification, Vet Assistant, Welding, Hospitality and tourism, auto tech, etc. are just a few of the new CTE classes being offered to HS students.
And they get the training/certification while still in HS so they don't have to go and pay for votech after they graduate.
It works to keep those struggling students in school. They end up with 7 credits they can use towards electives which includes CTE classes.
Last edited by HappyTexan; 08-24-2014 at 08:33 AM..
Who is to say that the students and their parents aren't the ones to decide that the students have learning issues? And why not allow a student who wants to be a dairy farmer or a child care worker begin training for their career in time to earn certification by the age of majority?
There are many students for whom learning about conic sections or stoichiometry is just beyond them. Placing them in these classes does them a disservice. Not only are they not interested, the experience often leaves them feeling stupid. Then there is the fact that they are using time that they could be spending learning something that they choose to learn and that will be useful to them. They wouldn't have "learning issues" if they were learning something relevant to them.
I don't understand trying to push all students into high level academics that require students to master concepts that are beyond their ability to understand. Do you admit that there are students at the lower levels of normal ability who just can't get quadratic functions and matrices or wave-particle duality? Why would you want to put students into classes that they will fail when they could be in career classes?
Certainly the students and parents should make the decision about learning issues. Are you aware that in France the school decides who goes on and who doesn't?
None of your examples are typically taught in high school Algebra I or II, geometry or high school level chemistry or even, to the best of my knowledge, HS physics, with the possible exception of the concepts of stoichiometry and maybe conic sections with some simple problem solving.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 08-24-2014 at 11:17 AM..
Certainly the students and parents should make the decision about learning issues. Are you aware that in France the school decides who goes on and who doesn't?
I'm very aware of both the French and the English systems of schooling. The two systems differ in very fundamental ways. In England, students are not retained due to non-achievement. They just get grouped in the lowest level class until the exams which determine what kind of upper secondary education they qualify for (GCSEs). In France, many parents choose to retain their children in elementary school to enable them to be better prepared for the exams at the end of elementary and middle schools (the brevet). This is not out of the ordinary. Some sources I've seen estimate that about 30% of students take advantage and redouble a year. The exams at the end of middle school determine the type of secondary education that they qualify for. There is a startingly broad range of vocational and technical programs for students who choose them or who don't qualify for the very demanding academic programs leading to university studies. I was fascinated to find that French students can get vocational training in everything from art restoration to blacksmithing to falconry.
One thing that both of these systems have in common is that the students are aware from the earliest ages that their futures depend upon themselves and their achievement in a crucial way. The students who want to have more choices know that they must do well enough to earn the path to higher education. If you don't take advantage of the benefits that the taxpayers provide for you to learn at the necessary level, then you don't get to waste more of their money. In contrast, in the US, we force all students into a very narrow range of pathways whether or not they want them or deserve them. It is easier in the States to return to academic education as an adult than it is in either England or France, but both systems are becoming more flexible to allow adults to re-enter the scholastic sphere.
Certainly the students and parents should make the decision about learning issues. Are you aware that in France the school decides who goes on and who doesn't?
None of your examples are typically taught in high school Algebra I or II, geometry or high school level chemistry or even, to the best of my knowledge, HS physics, with the possible exception of the concepts of stoichiometry and maybe conic sections with some simple problem solving.
In my high school Algebra II classes we covered conic sections, matrices, logarithms--both natural and base 10, back in the days before calculators. We had to learn how to interpolate the logarithms. There was a brief study of vectors and trigonometry, which we studied in depth in Advanced Math.
When I taugh Algebra II, the first unit was on graphing linear inequalities. It was a concept which a small number could grasp and very few could master. I was relieved when our district dropped Algebra II as a graduation requirement. It had really hurt our graduation rate, and when NCLB began rating schools and districts on graduation, it had to go.
What seems simple to you is not so simple for students who are reading on a fifth-grade level at age 16 and whose mastery of arithmetic skills and concepts is sketchy. Of course it would be better to ensure that all students are able to function on grade level, but that would result in 17-year-olds in middle school. In my opinion, those 17-year-olds would be better off learning a skill that will enable them to become taxpayers themselves rather than wasting the $8K we spend on them every year to prepare them for a future they can't realize.
]Here in Texas we dropped the Algebra II requirements.[/b]
Those planning to go to college can take that and classes beyond.
And vo-tech is making it's way back into HS thanks to the Federal push for CTE.
It gives those students who do not plan to attend college an edge.
Cosmetology with certification, Vet Assistant, Welding, Hospitality and tourism, auto tech, etc. are just a few of the new CTE classes being offered to HS students.
And they get the training/certification while still in HS so they don't have to go and pay for votech after they graduate.
It works to keep those struggling students in school. They end up with 7 credits they can use towards electives which includes CTE classes.
I'm so glad our district has moved to have a range of diploma tracks. They just didn't bother to tell anyone about them. I discovered it when I was going over the new school handbook with the students. We now have everything from early exit requiring 17 1/2 credits for those wanting to go on to college after 11th grade to the standard college prep to a career diploma to the occupational diploma for special ed students. We've also dropped the required credits from 27 to 25 for the college-prep track.
Now if we can get our vocational center up-to-date and up-to-speed, we may be helping prepare our students for what awaits them in the next few years. In our district of 35,000 students, our career center can only serve one class at a time for each program. Plus, many of our programs are out-dated and we haven't yet added the programs that would be desirable. Then the students that are admitted are not always very strong candidates and they leave the program, thereby denying that space to students who would keep the commitment.
This is a waste of valuable and rare resources. Our programs struggle to find and keep good staff who are willing to make less money in order to teach their trade to people who are not always as passionate about it as their instructors. As in many places, vo-tech is often a dumping ground. I used to take morning attendance for the vo-tech students before they boarded the bus in the mornings, so we used to talk. Many of the students had not gotten their first placement choice. (Cosmetology is extremely popular and fills up fast.)
One boy had been put in the Agriculture program. Keep in mind that this is an inner-city school where our students generally have NO experience with farming. I asked him if he wanted to be a farmer and he just laughed. He was there to play basketball with the ubiquitous goal of going to the NBA, like one of our alumni. In all likelihood, most of the other students in the program were also disinterested in going into our state's agribusiness sector. The program needs to be replaced by one that is actually in demand, like becoming a tattoo artist or lab technician. It would be a better use of education funds.
Instead our city has hundreds of students leave school each year, with or without diplomas, who languish on public programs or give in to the ubiquitous advertising for the proprietary career schools whose ads during day-time tv constantly chide them to make a better life for themselves and their children. Then they get school loans on which they will default, keeping them from being able to try again later.
I've seen it over and over again for going on three generations now, and it barely seems to get better. I'm afraid I've gotten rather blunt in telling the children how hard they will really have to work to overcome the obstacles that are set before them in making that better life happen. Of course I fail at trying to convince them that one big factor is whether or not they will have children while they are still uneducated. When that happens, it's very difficult for them to get on track. When students are barely making it from one day to the next, having unrealistically high academic educations leads to the dropping out to relieve the stress level. It's easier to manage child care when you work OR go to school. Doing both strains the family resources to the breaking point.
In my high school Algebra II classes we covered conic sections, matrices, logarithms--both natural and base 10, back in the days before calculators. We had to learn how to interpolate the logarithms. There was a brief study of vectors and trigonometry, which we studied in depth in Advanced Math.
When I taugh Algebra II, the first unit was on graphing linear inequalities. It was a concept which a small number could grasp and very few could master. I was relieved when our district dropped Algebra II as a graduation requirement. It had really hurt our graduation rate, and when NCLB began rating schools and districts on graduation, it had to go.
What seems simple to you is not so simple for students who are reading on a fifth-grade level at age 16 and whose mastery of arithmetic skills and concepts is sketchy. Of course it would be better to ensure that all students are able to function on grade level, but that would result in 17-year-olds in middle school. In my opinion, those 17-year-olds would be better off learning a skill that will enable them to become taxpayers themselves rather than wasting the $8K we spend on them every year to prepare them for a future they can't realize.
I, too, went to high school, and even college, before the days of calculators. (We used slide rules in college.) We did not do complicated problems.
I see your points, but I also have problems with funneling kids into "careers" that they later regret. Sometimes, the child care worker (for example) decides she (they are almost always "she") has had it with child care, which is after all very hard work. This requires some readjusting of life if one has gotten married, had kids, acquired a mortgage, etc. The careers kids can be taught in high school are not the high level trades people on this forum was rhapsodic about. The kids you are talking about are not the next Bill Gates, either. I'm sure he could do the math, even though he decided to drop out of college.
My husband jsut retired from teaching high school vo-tech and US History. Us History is required for graduation and lots of students never pass is and never graduate. Vo-tech is elective and yet he was routinely saddled with the kids who had 4 total high school credits in their junior year and have 13 kids in one section that all had IEPs. That's more special ed kids on one room at the same time than they allow in the reglar classroom...without an aide in a room that has machinery that can dismember or kill a human! The counselors would tell him that the student was failing academic classes so maybe HE could find something that the student could excel at. Isn't that the counselor's job? There's tests for that. After a while he would just look at the counselors and ask if this is the kid you think is capable of learning to fix their beloved BMW. Would you like to spend the semester in our wood shop, with saws running, sitting next to this student? Would you like to volunteer to help in metals the day we use the welding equipment for the first time? Perhaps you would like to stand under the hoist with a vehicle on it while this student changes the oil? Would you like to explain to this student why he cannot have a soft drink can next to the computer? Why if they fail the safety exam in the first month of class should they be allowed in the shop?
No, everyone is not cut out for college. And student loans have become the new "bad mortgage" replacements for banks. The housing market is going to take forever to recover in this generation due to the boatload of student loans out there. Those people will not be able to afford mortgages until they hit their 50's, if ever. If I had money I would be investing in rental properties. It is the wave of the future.
Even if a student is not college material they still need to take responsibility for their education. By the time they're in high school we need to quit blaming the parents and hold students accountable. If they fail to graduate, then it's just that. They can take the GED if they want.
We also need to have a path for those who want to have a vocational education, but the student needs to make the grade in the basics, at the very least. If you can't read or do basic math...forget vo-tech.
Our state colleges and community colleges are having a difficult time financing enough sessions for all students who need the classes in math and enlish. 65% of the classes are at the remedial level because students cannot get into some classes without passing their core. But that only leaves enough funding and staff for one session of upper division classes, and some classes are now only offered one semester each year. But if you need Math 096 you have a choice of 16 sessions in the classroom offered morning, afternoon, and evening..or online.
There's something wrong with this picture of education in the US.
Why do we make kids go to school. Alot of these kids are just wasting taxpayers money. Letting kids choose would lead to better test scores, less distractions, less violence, and just a better environment. It would especially make a change in low income schools. I say if kids want to throw away their life, let them. I say make kids go from k to 7th grade then let them make their own choice.
Because we are not an agro society or pre Industrial Revolution like before when you didn't need alot of formal education to be an adult and survive.
Here in my part of FL, kids used to work in the farms/fish all day and take a boat to a one room school house after their work was finished even in the early 1900's before Flagler developed Florida. BUT the NORTH still had universities and public transportation so FLoridians started OUT behind the eight ball competitively until about a couple decades ago. Or until transplants came here. PLENTY of that generation stopped formal school at elementary level and still were successful even starting businesses.
BUT you already knew the answer when you asked the question.
Besides, if you don't indoctrinate the children in government schools, how are you going to get all the future VOTES for big government programs? Free stuff and dependency requires you at least have to know how to vote for Uncle Sam and not be able to do much else.
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