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I don't think this has been brought up yet, but do you find yourself having more trouble with boys or girls?
The help for dealing with each is vastly different, so if you are having a problem with one over the other that might be why you're getting such conflicting information.
I usually have trouble with boys, but the girls can be extremely rude, and at most of the schools where I sub, the boys act out to impress the girls, and the girls sass and act mean to attract attention. I would say that a classroom full of boys, on average, is worse than a classroom composed of mostly boys. The boys are just extremely immature.
I have a feeling that kmb was an even worse sub than when he posted here and that the students know that kmb was a pushover then and will not let him expand out of his role.
Even if kmb did all of the strategies given to him here, he still would lose control of the class.
I think the best idea is for kmb to relocate to a new city and start over. He can't move to a new school in the same area because once they find out from their friends that kmb is a pushover, they'll give him an even worse time than his current school.
When I was fresh out of college, I had no prior experience dealing with unruly kids, except briefly during student teaching, but I think they were acting out mainly out of confusion or boredom. The ones I ran into as a sub were just plain mean. They actually tried to hurt me. I remember my first day as a sub at a certain middle school. The kids started the day by throwing books at each other! Of course, I had had enough and called the office. The person they sent just stood there and told them to stop. I was hoping they would calm down afterwards, but they started right back again after he left. I called them back and chose a student who wasn't following directions and had him sent out. I was hoping the rest of the class would calm down, but they slowly got bolder and bolder until I had pretty much the same issues: talking loudly, acting out, play fighting, bullying, and generally being obnoxious. The day left me feeling totally defeated.
Looking back on that now, there were things I possibly could have done to improve things a little. For one thing, I should have listened to my cooperating teacher who said that at that school, the one where I was subbing that day, the kids pay a lot of attention to how you look and act. I didn't ignore her advice, but I didn't ask for clarification, either. During pre-student teaching, she even offered to give me some of her old clothes. I was embarrassed, so I told her no and bought my own stuff. She was pretty hard on me; she put my teaching ability, or lack thereof, on display for her students. I got really nervous and felt like I couldn't really do anything productive there, so I requested to change rooms and reported her to my supervisor and the principal of the school. She wasn't exactly thrilled about that, but at the time I felt like I was being bullied. She wasn't setting me up for success; that's for sure, but, I found out from subbing that I could have used some tough love, a lot of it actually. Had I stayed with her and suffered the humiliation and mockery I was finding myself having to endure, maybe I would have come out with a much thicker skin. As it was, though, the kids pounced on me and ate me alive. I was too shy to really deal with them properly; I guess I still am, but not to the extent I was when I first started out.
I graduated in May and I've been subbing for the past few weeks (only done 5.5 days so far, however). Unlike you, I'm not looking to go full time in teaching. I'm just getting money while I look for a real job. Fortunately I haven't had the same problems as you have had. The main problems are getting the students' attention when I'm talking and getting them to remain silent when needed or at least somewhat well behaved when they are allowed to talk. I just did 3 days of middle school this week. I'm still getting used to it (my very first day was a disaster) but I'm getting better at it. I'm trying to find that balance between being the overly strict sub that intimidates kids and the sub that lets kids do whatever. One student yesterday said I was their favorite sub (after my only day with them). Another in the same class said that most subs don't let them get away with as much. I thought that was telling. I didn't think they were that bad. Took a few tries to get them under control to start but they were working and weren't screaming or throwing things so I was fine with it. Again, the biggest problem is just them talking. I forgot how much middle schoolers love to talk and just make noise! Coming from college classes where 100 or 200 students in a lecture get quiet the instant a professor speaks it took some adjusting. Even a room of 100 talking college students/adults isn't as loud as 30 middle schoolers that think any volume level is acceptable. I also think classes of 35 students is way too large. There is a noticeable difference between getting 20 students under control and more than 30.
I graduated in May and I've been subbing for the past few weeks (only done 5.5 days so far, however). Unlike you, I'm not looking to go full time in teaching. I'm just getting money while I look for a real job. Fortunately I haven't had the same problems as you have had. The main problems are getting the students' attention when I'm talking and getting them to remain silent when needed or at least somewhat well behaved when they are allowed to talk. I just did 3 days of middle school this week. I'm still getting used to it (my very first day was a disaster) but I'm getting better at it. I'm trying to find that balance between being the overly strict sub that intimidates kids and the sub that lets kids do whatever. One student yesterday said I was their favorite sub (after my only day with them). Another in the same class said that most subs don't let them get away with as much. I thought that was telling. I didn't think they were that bad. Took a few tries to get them under control to start but they were working and weren't screaming or throwing things so I was fine with it. Again, the biggest problem is just them talking. I forgot how much middle schoolers love to talk and just make noise! Coming from college classes where 100 or 200 students in a lecture get quiet the instant a professor speaks it took some adjusting. Even a room of 100 talking college students/adults isn't as loud as 30 middle schoolers that think any volume level is acceptable. I also think classes of 35 students is way too large. There is a noticeable difference between getting 20 students under control and more than 30.
Perhaps there is something about me that doesn't come off as friendly to the students. I do have slight appearance issues (clothes that are a little too small, slightly visible facial hair, slight acne, and a constant bad hair day) that I've discussed in other threads. it's nothing too bad, except maybe it identifies me as being from a certain socioeconomic background. Another issue is that I don't have a lot of charisma. When I'm in a room, I sometimes fade into the background. I feel more secure when I have a script or a set way of acting in a new situation. I treat new situations like plays and may say the same line over and over in response to certain behaviors if I'm not comfortable. One kid asked me if I was a robot! I guess I do need to work on actually making myself a person to the kids.
I usually have trouble with boys, but the girls can be extremely rude, and at most of the schools where I sub, the boys act out to impress the girls, and the girls sass and act mean to attract attention. I would say that a classroom full of boys, on average, is worse than a classroom composed of mostly boys. The boys are just extremely immature.
What do you mean by "a classroom full of boys is worse than a classroom composed of mostly boys"?
What are your thoughts on girls? Like how have they been rude?
You say boys act out to impress the girls? How? When?
You say the girls sass and act mean? How? When?
In addition to your response, if the girls are being violent in your class, that might explain a lot about your school district.
Why don't you ask your current class for which you are a substitute teacher, unless it is an online class that meets on the City Data education forum?
They are pretty immature. I doubt they would give me good answers. I have asked some of the better classes. It really boiled down to, "be more assertive," "give clear directions," and "don't let things escalate before you do something." Most of the kids in the better classes commented about how I looked "uptight," or "needed a little more confidence."
When I was fresh out of college, I had no prior experience dealing with unruly kids, except briefly during student teaching, but I think they were acting out mainly out of confusion or boredom. The ones I ran into as a sub were just plain mean. They actually tried to hurt me. I remember my first day as a sub at a certain middle school. The kids started the day by throwing books at each other! Of course, I had had enough and called the office. The person they sent just stood there and told them to stop. I was hoping they would calm down afterwards, but they started right back again after he left. I called them back and chose a student who wasn't following directions and had him sent out. I was hoping the rest of the class would calm down, but they slowly got bolder and bolder until I had pretty much the same issues: talking loudly, acting out, play fighting, bullying, and generally being obnoxious. The day left me feeling totally defeated.
Looking back on that now, there were things I possibly could have done to improve things a little. For one thing, I should have listened to my cooperating teacher who said that at that school, the one where I was subbing that day, the kids pay a lot of attention to how you look and act. I didn't ignore her advice, but I didn't ask for clarification, either. During pre-student teaching, she even offered to give me some of her old clothes. I was embarrassed, so I told her no and bought my own stuff. She was pretty hard on me; she put my teaching ability, or lack thereof, on display for her students. I got really nervous and felt like I couldn't really do anything productive there, so I requested to change rooms and reported her to my supervisor and the principal of the school. She wasn't exactly thrilled about that, but at the time I felt like I was being bullied. She wasn't setting me up for success; that's for sure, but, I found out from subbing that I could have used some tough love, a lot of it actually. Had I stayed with her and suffered the humiliation and mockery I was finding myself having to endure, maybe I would have come out with a much thicker skin. As it was, though, the kids pounced on me and ate me alive. I was too shy to really deal with them properly; I guess I still am, but not to the extent I was when I first started out.
Your first paragraph says a lot. "I think they were acting out mainly out of confusion or boredom."
Most kids are smart. They don't get confused by the basic directions you're giving them. They're angry that you think so little of them that they can't do anything without you holding their hand and they're not going to be nice to people who disrespect them and treat them like 8-year olds. They might be bored though.
What kinds of books were these? If they were just paper back books for literature, you could have made a game out of it saying: "I know we all love throwing books at each other, so whomever is not listening will have books thrown at them by the rest of the class." Then, just make sure they clean everything up before they leave. If they do, then that means they're mature and you can have fun with them. If they don't, then if they start again later, say, "Well I tried to be fun with you before, but you didn't clean up, so maybe another day." If they were textbooks, absolutely not though because someone could get hurt.
Your 2nd paragraph is very enlightening. You reported your cooperating teacher. If you are female, you should know that every other teacher thinks you're a snitch and a whiner, so they are keeping their distance for their own safety. They probably can't bluntly tell you to "get lost" so that's why you get some minor help, but they won't go out of their way for you.
It amazes me that they treat you so poorly. Even with my worst group, the kids would just complain I was mean, but always did what I said. And these were kids who were already thrown out of another school.
I graduated in May and I've been subbing for the past few weeks (only done 5.5 days so far, however). Unlike you, I'm not looking to go full time in teaching. I'm just getting money while I look for a real job. Fortunately I haven't had the same problems as you have had. The main problems are getting the students' attention when I'm talking and getting them to remain silent when needed or at least somewhat well behaved when they are allowed to talk. I just did 3 days of middle school this week. I'm still getting used to it (my very first day was a disaster) but I'm getting better at it. I'm trying to find that balance between being the overly strict sub that intimidates kids and the sub that lets kids do whatever. One student yesterday said I was their favorite sub (after my only day with them). Another in the same class said that most subs don't let them get away with as much. I thought that was telling. I didn't think they were that bad. Took a few tries to get them under control to start but they were working and weren't screaming or throwing things so I was fine with it. Again, the biggest problem is just them talking. I forgot how much middle schoolers love to talk and just make noise! Coming from college classes where 100 or 200 students in a lecture get quiet the instant a professor speaks it took some adjusting. Even a room of 100 talking college students/adults isn't as loud as 30 middle schoolers that think any volume level is acceptable. I also think classes of 35 students is way too large. There is a noticeable difference between getting 20 students under control and more than 30.
If you're male and have a booming voice, being the overly strict sub will work. By the time the kids call your bluff, you won't be in the class anymore, so it won't matter.
The reason for your differing expectations is because every incident is the end of the world for a middle schooler, so nearly any piece of news can create controversey, whereas it takes a lot more to excite or devastate a college student, so even in a class of 200 students, maybe 2 are truly excited about something.
Perhaps there is something about me that doesn't come off as friendly to the students. I do have slight appearance issues (clothes that are a little too small, slightly visible facial hair, slight acne, and a constant bad hair day) that I've discussed in other threads. it's nothing too bad, except maybe it identifies me as being from a certain socioeconomic background. Another issue is that I don't have a lot of charisma. When I'm in a room, I sometimes fade into the background. I feel more secure when I have a script or a set way of acting in a new situation. I treat new situations like plays and may say the same line over and over in response to certain behaviors if I'm not comfortable. One kid asked me if I was a robot! I guess I do need to work on actually making myself a person to the kids.
Are you a poor person working in a wealthy district?
You will need to accept that their families come from better backgrounds than you in advance. If you don't, that bitterness will leak into the rest of your personality.
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