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View Poll Results: Should test retakes be allowed in high school?
Test retakes should not be allowed 35 62.50%
Students should take the entire test again for full credit 5 8.93%
Student should take only the parts they missed for full credit 2 3.57%
Students should take the entire test again with grades averaged for both tests 8 14.29%
Students should take only the portions they missed but get half credit (same as averaging) 6 10.71%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-20-2014, 09:58 PM
 
Location: Paradise
3,663 posts, read 5,671,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfa-ish View Post
Please don't take this as an attack but I don't think these two responses match up.
If a student studies nothing but the study guide, and does understand everything in the study guide, they would ace the test.
What "proper preparation" would they need besides reading and understanding the study guide?
I don't take offence as you are not a classroom teacher who has had the education and experience that I have. Just as I don't do whatever job it is that you do and would not expect myself to be an expert in your field.

If they understand the study guide, then they understand the concept.

I teach math, so they would need to do the assigned practice homework and take it seriously.

If they only copied what we went over in class onto the study guide, they would not be able to apply the concepts from the guide to the test question. The guide helps if they forgot one step or they weren't quite sure over a small detail. Sometimes all they need is a prompt and they can remember the rest as long as they did the homework. I can assure you that they could not use the method of completing the square to solve a quadratic equation by simply looking at a similar problem. They have to have practiced it several times or the guide is useless. Especially since we learn other methods to solve a quadratic equation as well as other concepts during that unit. I, and I'm sure other teachers here as well, use a variety of methods to reinforce concepts learned. The study guide is just one small piece of the puzzle.

Not every teacher agrees with me but just as many do. My students performed above average on district tests especially when compared to schools with similar demographics. I've always taught at low socioeconomic schools by preference.
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Old 11-21-2014, 04:21 AM
 
7,990 posts, read 5,381,950 times
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One of my sons had an impressive teacher in high school (they had many, but this one I never forgot). On back to school night she explained that her job was to teach and tests were a way to test her ability to teach students the material. She explained that if they did not pass she would be willing to go over the material again with them and find what the problem was and they could retake the test.

I was floored by her attitude. She got the respect from the students and the parents immediately.
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Old 11-21-2014, 05:20 AM
 
Location: Suburbia
8,826 posts, read 15,311,022 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clevelander17 View Post
In short, I'm in favor of it, but to do it correctly, it can end up taking a lot of time and effort on the part of the teacher. I had planned on doing it this year, but for various reasons, including some things beyond my control, I didn't follow through.

If you're going to do it, though, there are a few things that you should be sure to do:

1) Shorten your assessments and make them very focused on a few specific standards. (Regardless of whether you're allowing retakes or not, long summative assessments should be a thing of the past.)

2) Allow students to do retakes as much as they'd like, but there needs to be a study period of at least 3-5 days so the student hopefully gets the idea that they need to study to actually learn the material to do better. This should also, in theory, prevent kids from abusing the privilege.

3) I do think that you'd have to make at least 2-3 versions of each assessment.


Some other thoughts:

If you're going to standards-based grading, really the only things going into your grade book should be assessment scores. Fluff points no longer exist--if you're doing it right and really want a student to know how well they've mastered the material. If we're being true to the ideals of child development, then every teacher from kindergarten to high school should be allowing and even encouraging test retakes. After all, one of the first things you learn in educational psych classes is that each child develops at his/her own pace. Therefore, is it really fair to give one-size-fits all summative assessments throughout the course of the year and with the belief that anyone that doesn't do well has failed?

Pretty much this ^. Actually, much of this is right on target.

We are standards based and students can show understanding of a standard at any time throughout the school year. It's not so much about retesting, but reteaching, remediating, and reassessing (not necessarily in the form of a test).

I'll pipe in more later when I have more time.
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Old 11-21-2014, 05:24 AM
 
4,721 posts, read 5,310,183 times
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No, I don't believe that students should be able to retake a test to get a better grade. The only time this should be done is if the whole class bombs a test. Then, the material should be retaught, and a different test on the material should be administered. We are raising kids who don't study, don't take anything seriously, and expect to be given grades.
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Old 11-21-2014, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Paradise
3,663 posts, read 5,671,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clevelander17 View Post
In short, I'm in favor of it, but to do it correctly, it can end up taking a lot of time and effort on the part of the teacher. I had planned on doing it this year, but for various reasons, including some things beyond my control, I didn't follow through.

If you're going to do it, though, there are a few things that you should be sure to do:

1) Shorten your assessments and make them very focused on a few specific standards. (Regardless of whether you're allowing retakes or not, long summative assessments should be a thing of the past.)

2) Allow students to do retakes as much as they'd like, but there needs to be a study period of at least 3-5 days so the student hopefully gets the idea that they need to study to actually learn the material to do better. This should also, in theory, prevent kids from abusing the privilege.

3) I do think that you'd have to make at least 2-3 versions of each assessment.


Some other thoughts:

If you're going to standards-based grading, really the only things going into your grade book should be assessment scores. Fluff points no longer exist--if you're doing it right and really want a student to know how well they've mastered the material. If we're being true to the ideals of child development, then every teacher from kindergarten to high school should be allowing and even encouraging test retakes. After all, one of the first things you learn in educational psych classes is that each child develops at his/her own pace. Therefore, is it really fair to give one-size-fits all summative assessments throughout the course of the year and with the belief that anyone that doesn't do well has failed?
I used to allow retakes. Sometimes with the same test. And I offered to work with the student to help them understand what they missed and why. I just never saw that it helped. Usually the student did worse on the second test than the first one (they didn't come in and get help). All it did was make a ton of extra work for me.

I'm not trying to be contrary; obviously it works for you and I have no problem with that.
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Old 11-21-2014, 09:00 AM
 
1,280 posts, read 1,394,978 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by negativenancy View Post
My school is very divided on retaking tests. I tried reteaching and retesting last year to see how it would go. From that year, I found that I usually had the same kids that had to retest everytime, these kids didn't take the original test seriously let alone the retest that followed after I retaught them the material
When did you reteach the material? If it was during normal class time, that adds insult to injury for the students who actually did the work and passed the test the first time.

The original question is interesting, as I think the students actually learning the material should be the most important thing. Just thinking out loud, I'd probably support something like giving the student who did poorly on the original test additional readings and assignments they have to do as homework, to better understand the material. If they completed that, they could take a different test for a grade up to a B. I think that would encourage the kids to take the first test seriously, but give them a chance to improve if they're willing to put in the effort.
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Old 11-21-2014, 09:59 AM
 
1,834 posts, read 2,694,042 times
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As electronics gain entry into the education world there are many techniques to re create the testing experience and change it from a measurement to a learning tool. For example, a full complete written and spoken explanation on why each possible choice would be right or wrong. A panel discussion on audio on the specific question complete with explanations, illustrations, and charts and other visual and audio learning aids worked into the mini presentation. If the re test accurately measured the knowledge of the subject then I see no reason to not consider it as in the end the basic goal of the activity is knowledge gained. The teaching of ethics and motivation and time management are separate areas of activity and require their just due perhaps in a separate course.
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Old 11-21-2014, 10:23 AM
 
1,580 posts, read 1,460,587 times
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No, I don't think retakes should be allowed. It seems like as time goes on, the more liberal grading policies have become and that students aren't taking their academic careers as seriously as they once did. All this technology should make learning easier and should make the quality of a student's work higher, but it seems like technology is more of a distraction than anything. Because school is supposed to be preparation for the real world where "retests" aren't usually given, test results should reflect the student's mastery of the material. The student, of course, should be expected to go through the test and learn from their mistakes, but it should be at the teacher's discretion if they want to award points for that. If students can demonstrate that they have learned the material after initially not understanding it, I think that's what education is all about.

However, the student's original test grade shouldn't be changed. Kids have to learn there are repercussions for not putting in the necessary effort to perform well. Of course, it seems like some teachers are scared to give bad grades because they'll have to deal with angry parents. You will see a lot of grade inflation at some colleges as well. None of this grade inflation does anybody any favors. It makes it hard for colleges and employers to distinguish between excellent students and good ones when high schools allow over 4.0 GPAs. Also, some students are allowed to skate through school, receiving decent grades for mediocre work, and are in for a rude awakening once they reach the real world because they're ill-equipped to deal with it.

Last edited by maniac77; 11-21-2014 at 11:13 AM..
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Old 11-21-2014, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Paradise
3,663 posts, read 5,671,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maniac77 View Post
You will see a lot of grade inflation at some colleges as well. None of this grade inflation does anybody any favors. It makes it hard for colleges and employers to distinguish between excellent students and good ones when high schools allow over 4.0 GPAs. Also, some students are allowed to skate through school, receiving decent grades for mediocre work, and are in for a rude awakening once they reach the real world because they're ill-equipped to deal with it.
I actually think college professors and instructors have it worse in a way. They have student surveys at the end of each class and you have a few spoiled students when you want to hold everyone to a high standard, those surveys can really throw career off. At the colleges where my husband worked, those surveys carry a lot of weight and if you have even a few students complaining, you are required to come up with a plan to address the issues or lose your job. Although, I have to admit, some do need to lose their jobs, it is easy to screw over a professor or instructor as well.
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Old 11-21-2014, 03:48 PM
 
3,281 posts, read 6,273,663 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Everdeen View Post
I used to allow retakes. Sometimes with the same test. And I offered to work with the student to help them understand what they missed and why. I just never saw that it helped. Usually the student did worse on the second test than the first one (they didn't come in and get help). All it did was make a ton of extra work for me.

I'm not trying to be contrary; obviously it works for you and I have no problem with that.
I've only done it on a limited basis, I have not been able to do it to the extent that I'd like to. It's a system that I believe can work well if the teacher is committed and has student buy-in. I teach social studies now, but I think that this system is particularly useful in math courses and any other subject matter that builds upon itself.
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