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Old 09-30-2016, 02:34 PM
 
1,137 posts, read 1,346,518 times
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I am constantly amazed at what I see at high school sporting events. The idea that sports build character, teamwork, self sacrifice etc has become a joke. All too often I see coaches who think it's all about them and their record, as if they are going to be plucked by some high paying college based on their winning record. Or the ones who never grew out of their high school glory days and are now reliving it through 'their' team.
They are completely missing the point.
I first noticed it at a field hockey game. They only had one extra player for that game and she never left the bench. She wasn't a bad player and she attended every practice but the coach was so intent on winning, she left the starting lineup in the entire game. No one can convince me that the coach couldn't have worked her into the game even if it was five minutes before the half. The girl quit the next day.
Just yesterday I saw it at a volleyball game. Same thing, starting six in and only one other player got to sub in. It left six remaining players with a goose egg for playing time.
It is not all about winning.
Any Joe Schmoe can start their best players, a real coach works his team into the game. That is the spirit of teamwork. No one is getting paid to play. In fact, many players now have to pay to participate. Why should 12 pay and only six play?
These coaches are more about themselves and their own egos.
If you are the parent of a star player then you probably have no idea what I'm talking about. The other parents know what it's like to see their child attend every practice and fund raiser, cram homework and spend money for cleats, shin guards et cetera only to sit on the bench the whole game.
If you are wondering where spoiled brat pro athletes come from look no further than any high school gym where the stars are coddled at the expense of the other players.
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Old 09-30-2016, 02:37 PM
 
Location: southwestern PA
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So is it you or your child who did not get enough playing time?
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Old 09-30-2016, 02:46 PM
 
1,137 posts, read 1,346,518 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitt Chick View Post
So is it you or your child who did not get enough playing time?
So predictable...

Regardless of your lack of original thought, I have no problem answering.

The field hockey player was not my child, mine was one of the ones who played the whole game. I freely admit they were about the same skill level.

The volleyball game was a friends child, I had no dog in that fight but I can see unfairness none the less.

so.. are you a coach
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Old 09-30-2016, 02:58 PM
 
Location: southwestern PA
22,599 posts, read 47,698,122 times
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I thought it was quite the original thought! Darn....

Nope. Not a coach.

The problems you describe have happened in school districts around me where it is mandatory that seniors play varsity. The player can be seriously lacking the skills possessed by their teammates and should still be on the JV level playing.
But they are required to move to varsity, where they are quite literally out of their league.

Also, some players are benched for disciplinary reason and or grades. Those are not always made known to the masses.

Sometimes the extra player is there only for when someone is sick or gets hurt.

Back in my day, winning was the only thing. And those of us on the bench were proud to be part of the winning and part of the team. We worked hard during practices to keep the starters in shape.

Would you rather they select less players, so as not to disappoint those who are not quite as good? That is how it was done during my high school years. Now it seems every person who goes out for a team makes it....
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Old 09-30-2016, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland
5,751 posts, read 10,382,148 times
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High schools want to win games. And so does the student body. By the time a kid reaches high school, equal playing time and trophies for everyone are out the window. If a kid can't accept little playing time (while still being part of a team, participating in practices, team events, etc.), then maybe they should think about playing intramural, club, or park district sports (lots of other options) - or find another sport or club.
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Old 09-30-2016, 03:10 PM
 
1,137 posts, read 1,346,518 times
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I guess I would prefer they remember it's only a game. It's not the coach's resume and it's not solely for the development of the gifted athletes.
Let them all play. I'm not saying equal time but find coaches who can work teamwork into a team. I've seen too much "support the team" which translates to 'sit and be quiet while I try to win with the best players'. It goes against all that high school sports are supposed to be.
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Old 09-30-2016, 03:17 PM
 
Location: southwestern PA
22,599 posts, read 47,698,122 times
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Originally Posted by StuartGotts View Post
I guess I would prefer they remember it's only a game. It's not the coach's resume and it's not solely for the development of the gifted athletes.
But "only a game" can result in some nice athletic scholarships.

I know kids who, because they played the game well, got scholarships in golf, field hockey, swimming, hockey, basketball, baseball, football and lacrosse.

My husband would not have gotten a free ride without his football team going to states. And that would not have happened if there were no cuts and everyone plays.

There are less competitive options.... rec leagues and the like.
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Old 09-30-2016, 04:27 PM
 
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Perhaps a have a bit of different perspective on this. Some background: My father played, coached, and scouted professionally. He also coached youth. So I watched and learned from him. When my kids were little, I coached several youth teams. Both kids went on to play HS and club sports. One of my kids pretty much played every minute of every game. The other spent a lot of time on the bench. Yet both were roughly of the same ability, so what was the difference? The coach.


My dad had a love/hate relationship with HS sports. He loved the game and youth playing, but really didn't like HS coaches. He believed youth sports were about player development -- growing skills and preparing them for the next level. Yet many HS coaches don't even know how to coach a sport to develop players, so they pick and play the ones who seem to perform the best and give them the best chance of winning, because they don't have that ability to coach a winning team themselves.


In the youth teams I coached, I tried to follow my dad's philosophy and develop players. I'll be honest and say my teams didn't win many games, but a lot of my players moved up to play on championship teams.


Now I'm not one who believes in everyone gets a trophy, and I believe teams should hold tryouts and cut to the team. But if a kid makes the team, then they are good enough to be on the team. They may not be starters, but they should get playing time. I've watched too many coaches be so intent on winning that they wear out their starters and have no bench strength because they didn't play the others. Sure, they may win up front, but seasons can be long and every kid needs time on that field.


And if you really want to see bad coaching in the name of winning, check out
Riverdale, Smyrna girls deliberately try to lose game, get kicked out of playoffs


vs what good sportsmanship is
Sportsmanship shines at college softball game
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Old 09-30-2016, 04:58 PM
 
11,642 posts, read 23,918,888 times
Reputation: 12274
Quote:
Originally Posted by StuartGotts View Post
I am constantly amazed at what I see at high school sporting events. The idea that sports build character, teamwork, self sacrifice etc has become a joke. All too often I see coaches who think it's all about them and their record, as if they are going to be plucked by some high paying college based on their winning record. Or the ones who never grew out of their high school glory days and are now reliving it through 'their' team.
They are completely missing the point.
I first noticed it at a field hockey game. They only had one extra player for that game and she never left the bench. She wasn't a bad player and she attended every practice but the coach was so intent on winning, she left the starting lineup in the entire game. No one can convince me that the coach couldn't have worked her into the game even if it was five minutes before the half. The girl quit the next day.
Just yesterday I saw it at a volleyball game. Same thing, starting six in and only one other player got to sub in. It left six remaining players with a goose egg for playing time.
It is not all about winning.
Any Joe Schmoe can start their best players, a real coach works his team into the game. That is the spirit of teamwork. No one is getting paid to play. In fact, many players now have to pay to participate. Why should 12 pay and only six play?
These coaches are more about themselves and their own egos.
If you are the parent of a star player then you probably have no idea what I'm talking about. The other parents know what it's like to see their child attend every practice and fund raiser, cram homework and spend money for cleats, shin guards et cetera only to sit on the bench the whole game.
If you are wondering where spoiled brat pro athletes come from look no further than any high school gym where the stars are coddled at the expense of the other players.
Sports is like the real world. In your job you don't get rewarded by showing up (going to practice) and buying appropriate clothes (sports equipment). You get rewarded by doing a good job. It isn't enough to try hard at sports. You have to produce results.

I like the idea of everyone participating at lower levels (youth, middle school, JV) but varsity sports should be competitive.

For the record I am not a coach.

For the record, my oldest son was a very good HS football player and played at a D3 college where he earned all conference honors. He was also an ok wrestler (not a star) and a pretty good lacrosse player. His first year wrestling he wrestled off EVERY SINGLE WEEK and lost his wrestle off EVERY SINGLE WEEK.

For the record, my middle son was an OK lacrosse player who had to work really hard to get on to the field in HS. He didn't see the field much as a sophomore but played a fair amount his Jr/Sr year because he got better.

For the record, my youngest son stopped playing football after JV because he wasn't good enough to get any playing time on varsity. He is a very good lacrosse player who has been recruited to play lacrosse at at D3 school.
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Old 09-30-2016, 05:17 PM
 
11,642 posts, read 23,918,888 times
Reputation: 12274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitt Chick View Post
But "only a game" can result in some nice athletic scholarships.

I know kids who, because they played the game well, got scholarships in golf, field hockey, swimming, hockey, basketball, baseball, football and lacrosse.

My husband would not have gotten a free ride without his football team going to states. And that would not have happened if there were no cuts and everyone plays.

There are less competitive options.... rec leagues and the like.
In addition to scholarships being recruited to play sports at highly academic division 3 schools can help kids get in schools where admission is very difficult.

My youngest has been recruited to play at a D3 lacrosse school where the acceptance rate is around 20%. Being a recruited athlete increases his chances for acceptance quite a bit. I won't really be relaxed about it until he gets the acceptance letter but I feel better about it than I would if he were applying as a general applicant.

He has a friend recruited to play football at Harvard. He has another friend recruited to play softball at Yale. He has a third friend recruited to play baseball at Johns Hopkins. Those schools are all super difficult to get in and being a recruited athlete (with good grades/test scores) helps kids get into these great schools.

My kids school has lots of kids who get scholarships to play at D1 schools in lots of different sports. I just wanted to add to your comments by mentioning there are other kids besides scholarship kids who benefit from competitive sports teams.
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