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Old 10-09-2015, 09:49 PM
 
12,664 posts, read 8,891,575 times
Reputation: 34637

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthStarDelight View Post
And exactly why do we do that? Maybe it's because they don't have the educational / life skills to support themselves as adults. I think we need to double down and do what it takes to get these kids educated so they can live middle-class lives. We've been making progress on this front, but we've got a long, long ways to go.

.
You want to double down on a system that's a complete failure? Sorry to break it to you, but we are not making progress, unless you define progress as making things worse. You seem to be confusing ability with income. These are two very different things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthStarDelight View Post
And that's a good thing. We're just getting started - this is a generations-long project we're embarking on here.

Sorry this offends those with "gifted" kids - but it's for the best. It really is.
No way this is for the best. Rather it's for the worst. Have no idea where you get your ideas, other than jealousy but as a society we spend very little on the gifted kids. A disportionate share of our funds go to the bottom students. All you're doing is hurting the top students for no gain at the bottom. The ultimate in envy and jealousy at work.
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Old 10-10-2015, 06:06 AM
 
4,344 posts, read 2,773,444 times
Reputation: 5814
Parents should be allowed to choose which school to send their kids to. The local public school, other public schools, private schools, parochial schools. The money the parents home school district uses to pay for the child's education would go to whatever school he selected. This way kids would have a better chance of winding up at a school that suited them. ONE school is not the best answer for every kid.

Now, only upper-middle class families have access to parochial and private schools. Letting kids from less well off families in would go a long way to equalizing educational opportunity. It's especially important for ghetto kids. Their schools are failures. They have proven over generations that they do nothing for the kids that pass through them.

Let poor kids go to Emma Willard, Lasalle, Albany Academy. Then you would see more of them being lawyers and doctors and fewer be drug dealers.

Someone in the Ed Dept. talked about breaking the school to prison pipeline. Well, do it! Don't make the pipeline stronger. Let the kids get out of it.
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Old 10-10-2015, 07:18 AM
 
2,643 posts, read 2,608,874 times
Reputation: 1722
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troyfan View Post
Parents should be allowed to choose which school to send their kids to. The local public school, other public schools, private schools, parochial schools. The money the parents home school district uses to pay for the child's education would go to whatever school he selected. This way kids would have a better chance of winding up at a school that suited them. ONE school is not the best answer for every kid.

Now, only upper-middle class families have access to parochial and private schools. Letting kids from less well off families in would go a long way to equalizing educational opportunity. It's especially important for ghetto kids. Their schools are failures. They have proven over generations that they do nothing for the kids that pass through them.

Let poor kids go to Emma Willard, Lasalle, Albany Academy. Then you would see more of them being lawyers and doctors and fewer be drug dealers.

Someone in the Ed Dept. talked about breaking the school to prison pipeline. Well, do it! Don't make the pipeline stronger. Let the kids get out of it.
You still have access to those schools if you choose to make sacrifices to move to another town or pay for it yourself. Otherwise, your property taxes cover the schools. You have no right to use a school someone else is paying for. If you honestly think the current per pupil spending is enough to cover a year at the schools you listed, then you are a fool. People will happily pay more than the current $30,000 to keep their kids segregated. Lots of drug dealers and buyers at those listed prep schools. Who do you think can afford it?

Last edited by toobusytoday; 10-13-2015 at 06:25 AM.. Reason: removed the rude comment
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Old 10-10-2015, 07:20 AM
 
2,643 posts, read 2,608,874 times
Reputation: 1722
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Putting a failing kid in an AP class is a "good thing" ?

Sorry to rain on your parade here but putting a failing kid in an AP class just drags down the AP class.
And does nothing for that failing kid except bring on more failure.
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Old 10-10-2015, 08:39 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
4,439 posts, read 5,506,560 times
Reputation: 3395
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS View Post
You still have access to those schools if you choose to make sacrifices to move to another town or pay for it yourself. Otherwise, your property taxes cover the schools. You have no right to use a school someone else is paying for. If you honestly think the current per pupil spending is enough to cover a year at the schools you listed, then you are a fool. People will happily pay more than the current $30,000 to keep their kids segregated. Lots of drug dealers and buyers at those listed prep schools. Who do you think can afford it?
So what you're saying that only rich kids should be allowed to go to the best schools?

I've got a better idea: Take all the money that's being spent on education today - federal, state, local, and divvy it up to every child equally. Every single child in America should be able to get the same level of quality education, with the exact same resources as any other child. California is off to a great start with this, by taking money from the rich districts and putting it into the poor ones.

Until a way is found to give every child the "genius shot", we're gonna have to do this the hard way. If the under-performing kids are failing, then we need to roll up our sleeves and figure out what needs to be done to bring them up to the level middle-class educational attainment.

I tell you what, I sure am glad that the folks in charge have the right idea about all of this - it'd sure be helpful if people would quit putting up roadblocks in what they're attempting to achieve, however.

Last edited by toobusytoday; 10-13-2015 at 06:25 AM..
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Old 10-10-2015, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,246,121 times
Reputation: 27718
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthStarDelight View Post
So what you're saying that only rich kids should be allowed to go to the best schools?

I've got a better idea: Take all the money that's being spent on education today - federal, state, local, and divvy it up to every child equally. Every single child in America should be able to get the same level of quality education, with the exact same resources as any other child. California is off to a great start with this, by taking money from the rich districts and putting it into the poor ones.

Until a way is found to give every child the "genius shot", we're gonna have to do this the hard way. If the under-performing kids are failing, then we need to roll up our sleeves and figure out what needs to be done to bring them up to the level middle-class educational attainment.

I tell you what, I sure am glad that the folks in charge have the right idea about all of this - it'd sure be helpful if people would quit putting up roadblocks in what they're attempting to achieve, however.
Bad schools are bad not because of the buildings, not because of the teachers and not because of the state curriculum.

Moving the students will not change a thing.
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Old 10-10-2015, 10:17 AM
 
2,643 posts, read 2,608,874 times
Reputation: 1722
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthStarDelight View Post
So what you're saying that only rich kids should be allowed to go to the best schools?

I've got a better idea: Take all the money that's being spent on education today - federal, state, local, and divvy it up to every child equally. Every single child in America should be able to get the same level of quality education, with the exact same resources as any other child. California is off to a great start with this, by taking money from the rich districts and putting it into the poor ones.

Until a way is found to give every child the "genius shot", we're gonna have to do this the hard way. If the under-performing kids are failing, then we need to roll up our sleeves and figure out what needs to be done to bring them up to the level middle-class educational attainment.

I tell you what, I sure am glad that the folks in charge have the right idea about all of this - it'd sure be helpful if people would quit putting up roadblocks in what they're attempting to achieve, however.
Hello? Money coming from the state is one thing...usually struggling schools get more. But then local taxpayers decide how much they are willing to pay in taxes to supplement their local schools. So no way will towns vote to have more of their property taxes taken by the state. You don't have to be in a rich school system to get the best education either. So many people are living proof of that. And finally...not everyone is a genius. Even kids in honors or AP classes are not geniuses. Plus if you want to get to underperforming kids, then start with the parents. A seventeen year old having a baby isn't going to do it as well as a 30 year old educated person with a good job. Work with the parents and you will solve a lot. So stop the whole "rich kids" get everything crap. I'm not rich, but have seen plenty of them fail too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Bad schools are bad not because of the buildings, not because of the teachers and not because of the state curriculum.

Moving the students will not change a thing.
Thank you.
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Old 10-10-2015, 01:34 PM
 
9,001 posts, read 10,146,919 times
Reputation: 14526
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
You want to double down on a system that's a complete failure? Sorry to break it to you, but we are not making progress, unless you define progress as making things worse. You seem to be confusing ability with income. These are two very different things.



No way this is for the best. Rather it's for the worst. Have no idea where you get your ideas, other than jealousy but as a society we spend very little on the gifted kids. A disportionate share of our funds go to the bottom students. All you're doing is hurting the top students for no gain at the bottom. The ultimate in envy and jealousy at work.
I really commend you on this post-
You articulated what was going through my mind when I originally saw his opinions....

Last edited by toobusytoday; 10-13-2015 at 06:27 AM.. Reason: removed rude comments
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Old 10-10-2015, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,246,121 times
Reputation: 27718
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthStarDelight View Post
So what you're saying that only rich kids should be allowed to go to the best schools?

I've got a better idea: Take all the money that's being spent on education today - federal, state, local, and divvy it up to every child equally. Every single child in America should be able to get the same level of quality education, with the exact same resources as any other child. California is off to a great start with this, by taking money from the rich districts and putting it into the poor ones.

Until a way is found to give every child the "genius shot", we're gonna have to do this the hard way. If the under-performing kids are failing, then we need to roll up our sleeves and figure out what needs to be done to bring them up to the level middle-class educational attainment.

I tell you what, I sure am glad that the folks in charge have the right idea about all of this - it'd sure be helpful if people would quit putting up roadblocks in what they're attempting to achieve, however.
Figure out what needs to be done ? Most teachers in these types of schools already know where the problem stems from. It all starts in the home. It's not the school or the teachers or the books or the technology or anything else. It's the home and parental upbringing.

So now tell us how you plan to "fix" that ?
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Old 10-10-2015, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Out in the Badlands
10,420 posts, read 10,788,973 times
Reputation: 7801
Quote:
Originally Posted by katie1215 View Post
What changes would you make if you could?
Get the Federal Gument out of it.
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