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Okay, went to the parent meeting last night for the high school IB program.
Background:
Daughter that is in 8th grade. Been in the Gifted & Talented program since kindergarten. Everything is EASY for her. I mean REALLY EASY! She has always been good about getting her work done in class and only having a few things to finish for homework. She has also been "trained" to take good notes, keep a daily planner with all assignments, etc. This year she is taking her first year of high school math in 8th grade and it counts towards her credits. Same for her 3rd year of foreign language. She has already said that her math (Algebra) is VERY EASY! Things "click" for her. The only down subject for her is Science and that is just because she does not like it so she is not applying herself but still maintaining a mid B (working on that one and getting her to just apply herself to make things much easier on her down the road).
She is in band (plans to drop for high school due to other extra activities she wants to be in), athletics (track and wants to pursue tennis more) and cheer (school not competitive). She knows she can do both band and cheer if she so desires at the high school that offers IB. She also knows that this is the only high school in our district that will let her do multiple activities and some of their outside activities count towards CAS (Community/Action/Service - part of the IB certification program). Because of her status she is pretty much accepted into any of our high schools (7) that she wants to attend (we live in an "open district" and some schools have various magnet programs). She has talked to and known kids that went thru the IB program both partial and full and were able to do things like cheer/drill, band, football, other sports, etc. They have told her you just have to stay on top of your assignments and get them done when you are given them but that it CAN be done and still have a social life. She has been involved in something since she was 2 be it dance, soccer, gymnastices, band, cheer, church, etc and not had any problems at all with her grades or school. We do limit the number of activities they can be in and that is also why I like my kids to be in school related activities as they don't allow them to overlap. Her schools have also been very aware of when things are going on outside of class like big band/choir/orchestra trips and such. Band won't schedule a concert on the nights they know football/basketball/volleyball/etc is also having a "game night" or such. It sounds like the IB high school does the same thing.
IF she does do the IB program you MUST start "Full IB" and then can drop down to partial IB or only AP. You can not start partial and switch to "full IB". She likes the idea that after completing the program she won't have to take a single college English class (she does not plan to be an English major) and same for most of the first and second year Math & Science classes (and depending on the college and her major won't have to take them at all). The IB students can also take the AP tests to test out of courses for college and gain credits there as well.
We are trying to encourage her to at least start full IB and try it. She knows it will put her further ahead when college comes around (and save us a TON of money - money we have told her that COULD pay for her to travel more and have the choice of ANY college she wants to attend no matter the costs). She knows 1 person that was able to start college as a jr w/ around 50 credit hours already from doing the IB program. SCHWEEEET! We know she can do it and she does too. Everyone I saw was saying things like, "oh she will have NO PROBLEM at all with it" when I was asking parents that have been there how hard it is. Speaking w/ the couselor at the high school I asked about being able to bring her to tour the school and see the classes "in action". They had no problem with it. I'd have to arrange for her to miss a few hours of her school now (which I'm sure would be okay just once since she does not miss and is good about staying on top of things). I told her from the description of the classes given it sounds like what she is used to - classes that think "outside of the box" and gives you room to expand and explore. She has been in classes like this since kindergarten and LOVES IT!
I'm thinking she is going to be very unhappy in only all AP courses with kids on all levels that are only there because they "have to be" in order to get college credits and might not be up to speed with kids like herself. Any kind of "slowdown" in class DOES bring her down and it does show. That is my fear with only AP. They might be TOO EASY and she will get lax and her grades go down.
Does anyone have any experience with both AP and IB? Would you do IB over again or not? If your child started IB and dropped down to partial or out of it looking back would you encourage them to stay in it?
I was in the IB Program and I would recommend it with caution.
It requires A LOT of time and effort.
I know people who were able to juggle a lot and still do well in IB but it can be a struggle. I knew a lot of stressed out people.
It's not a gurantee that you won't have to ever take a college english, math, or science class. You have to make a certain score on the IB exam in order to not take a college english, math, or science class. This varies by college and not all colleges accept IB credit, most do however. The same goes for the AP program [you have to score a certain score in order to gain credit] and most colleges accept AP credit.
If you feel your daughter can handle it, go for it.
The University of Tulsa has a great IB credit program. They also have a scholarship for those in the IB Program, I think it's about 1,000 or 3,000 dollars. Of course you have to have a certain GPA.
I know there are other schools who offer great IB credit programs. I just know of Tulsa because they came to my high school and I was accepted there.
At my schools IB program, it seemed like a lot of people were just the hard working students, not necessarily the smartest.
Sometimes we questioned why we were in IB while a lot of other more intelligent students were in AP.
To each their own.
I didn't notice a big difference in terms of the colleges the AP students went to and the ones the IB students went to.
Of course this was just at MY school.
The main thing about the IB program is that the students are not just smart, they have a very strong love of learning. If one doesn't really love learning just for the sake of learning, I don't think they would like being in the program.
I would also not count on starting college as a junior. As LiveTodayLez08 said, college credit is not automatic. A friend's daughter went to the U of Chicago and received no credit at all for her IB. When she transferred to the University of Colorado, she received a year's worth of credit. I have never heard of getting two years' credit.
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I'm thinking she is going to be very unhappy in only all AP courses with kids on all levels that are only there because they "have to be" in order to get college credits and might not be up to speed with kids like herself. Any kind of "slowdown" in class DOES bring her down and it does show. That is my fear with only AP. They might be TOO EASY and she will get lax and her grades go down.
Frankly, I don't think you have to worry about this. I'm not sure where you got the idea that AP classes are a lower order of class than IB. To me, IB is more a "cookbook" approach: do this, do that, etc. Some of the kids I knew who were in IB did it b/c they were the constant overacheivers. Some, acutally many, from this area ended up at colleges that are not anywhere near first tier, perhaps b/c they burned out in high school.
The main thing about the IB program is that the students are not just smart, they have a very strong love of learning. If one doesn't really love learning just for the sake of learning, I don't think they would like being in the program.
I agree.
I knew a lot of people who were happy with Cs because they knew they were learning.
A lot of the AP kids [at my school] were just concerned with their GPA and class rank and not whether or not they were prepared for college.
I definitley feel like the IB program prepared me well for college.
I'm sure most AP students will say the same but it's all about the quality of the program.
Many schools can have an AP program but it may not be a good program. The same goes for the IB(O) program(me) but they have provisions in place to measure a school's success and if they are doing what they need to do to ensure a quality program.
I agree.
I knew a lot of people who were happy with Cs because they knew they were learning.
A lot of the AP kids [at my school] were just concerned with their GPA and class rank and not whether or not they were prepared for college.
I definitley feel like the IB program prepared me well for college.
I'm sure most AP students will say the same but it's all about the quality of the program.
Many schools can have an AP program but it may not be a good program. The same goes for the IB(O) program(me) but they have provisions in place to measure a school's success and if they are doing what they need to do to ensure a quality program.
I do not agree that AP is less likely to be "good" for some reason. If kids aren't passing the AP tests, the kids and their parents will be unhappy and some changes will be made. At the high schools in my district, some of which have IB and some of which don't (all have AP), it seems like there is a group of kids who are interested in their GPA in both programs. I have heard of kids quitting the orchestra b/c it wasn't a "weighted" course, therefore would lower their GPA. One school that has a very popular IB program has pass/fail PE classes and the like for the IB students, so that these required courses won't pull down their GPAs.
Well, now the College Board audits AP courses to make sure they are being taught the way they were intended.
I got the IB diploma, but 9 times out of 10, IB students also take AP courses. For instance I took AP Calculus in addition to IB Math courses.
You can taken enough exams to have two years of college credit, but that doesn't mean you'll be a junior. And depending on your major, you can be a junior for more than one year. I went into college as a second semester sophomore, but I actually spent most of my college years as a senior because of the amount of credits I had (I double majored, and I took education courses).
My oldest son is in his senior year of being an IB Full Diploma student. There are nights he is totally stressed out and nights he isn't. The hardest thing is all the extras that are required in addition to a full schedule of rigorous classes. My son currently is writing a 4,000 word essay on the effect of colored light on chlorella and diatoms for his extended essay, writing an essay for Theory of Knowledge, and being concerned about the CAS hours. Then each class has self assessments that the student needs to fill out. My son has taken six AP tests in addition to his IB tests so you get to do both technically.
Colleges say they don't favor AP or IB so just choose the one your child wants to be in. Our high school personally saw an increase in admission for IB seniors to the most prestigious schools, but then again the smartest kids tended to take IB classes and would have probably gotten in on an AP schedule also.
Also, don't underestimate GPA. While it should not be the only focus, if you child is a top student, it should be important. My son's GPA pulled him to 13/750. By having a high class rank he was guaranteed admission to five campuses of the University of California system and has a statistically higher admission rate to the remianing UC schools. This has been a tremendous relief for having his "safety schools" like UC Davis or UC Santa Barbara already secured and he can focus on getting into places like Stanford or UCLA. Hence, GPA can make a huge difference but don't let it totally determine your course load.
Around here the IB programs are in magnet schools. In these schools the IB program is segregated from the regular population of the school resulting in a black/white divide that makes me uncomfortable. We opted for private school. Despite the wealth at our school it is fairly diverse with respect to race/nationality. However, the IB programs do enjoy a very favorable repuation and enrollment is very competitive, which does result in classes with many high level students. My son is in the honors track at his school and there are many bright kids in that track (lots of AP classes available).
The thing that I would be worried about is this rush to push through college earlier. I think we do our kids a grave disservice by having them rush to complete college 2 years earlier just to save us money. Kids need those years of early adulthood to learn to know themselves. I beg you to let your child take the time she needs to grow into an adult. A smart person will still be smart regardless of whether they graduate from college at 20 or 22.
I have a high achieving child (he maintains straight As in Honors/AP classes while playing 3 sports and being in marching band) so I understand the need for academic challenge. The problem that I have with the IB program is that it is to structured and requires alot of pre determined work. This leaves little time for learning OUTSIDE the classroom. IMO much learning happens outside the classroom but if a child is so inundated with busywork that they have no time to think it can hinder the learning process. Don't be fooled into thinking that MORE work equals better thinking. A child needs BETTER thinking, not just more of it. I think that can be provided outside of the IB program because there is more opportunity to take elective classes in an honors/AP track.
I couldn't have said it better than Momma_bear! That is what I was alluding to in the "cookbook" approach, for one thing.
The GPA issue is important, as missionhome stated, but I think students should keep their GPAs up by working hard and taking challenging (to them) classes, not by gaming the system by refusing to take courses that interest them b/c they are not "weighted". Some districts here in Colorado have stopped weighting b/c of that, and don't have a valedictorian any more, just an "honors group". The colleges generally unweight the grades anyway. CO has a system of automatic admission that includes both grades and test scores, so people that have high GPAs also have to have decent SAT/ACT scores.
I know very few people who have actually graduated from college in 2 or even 3 years, despite having supposedly a year's worth of college credit through AP/IB. One mom actually told me she thought her son needed the whole four years to mature, even though his college did give him the years' credits.
My youngest is now a senior in college, so I can look back on some of this stuff and laugh a little. I definitely agree that MORE work is not necessarily better. Quality, not quantity, should be the objective. Sometimes quality means putting in a lot of time, but the reverse is not always true. Sometimes putting in time means just more busywork. I will repeat, I know lots of kids who got IBs who ended up at "average" colleges, so be very careful not to put all your eggs in the IB basket.
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- money we have told her that COULD pay for her to travel more and have the choice of ANY college she wants to attend no matter the costs). She knows 1 person that was able to start college as a jr w/ around 50 credit hours already from doing the IB program. SCHWEEEET! We know she can do it and she does too. Everyone I saw was saying things like, "oh she will have NO PROBLEM at all with it" when I was asking parents that have been there how hard it is. Speaking w/ the couselor at the high school I asked about being able to bring her to tour the school and see the classes "in action". They had no problem with it. I'd have to arrange for her to miss a few hours of her school now (which I'm sure would be okay just once since she does not miss and is good about staying on top of things). I told her from the description of the classes given it sounds like what she is used to - classes that think "outside of the box" and gives you room to expand and explore. She has been in classes like this since kindergarten and LOVES IT! 
