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Our test scores are low because we have a widely diverse population. some of the home cultures do not value education so greatly, and the kids act like *******s quite frankly. this hurts instructional time. the diverse population also creates many diff type of learners that are not always well accomodated in the classroom. Finland and Korea do not have this issue.
china and india are developing our products because the labor is dirt cheap.
Not literally force, but its driven into everyone's head. If our school system is so great why are American students math and science scores lower than many other developed nations? Why are China and India developing products while we are just gravitating towards them and putting a spin on them? The current education system does not prepare students for life, it teaches obedience and conformity, which hampers creativity and natural ability. Anyway, back to my original question, are those without degrees screwed, in a bad way?
For the millionth time, the US tests ALL their students while most countries only test their top students - in some countries that is as low as 5%. So they certainly aren't testing special needs students or recent immigrants with language barriers.
To answer the original questions...well, it's what no one wants to hear. We have to tax companies that outsource jobs and reward companies that keep things in the country. We also have to make those jobs livable. People decry unions and ask why we can't be like previous generations that "picked themselves up by their boot straps". Yet rather than acknowledge that at one time a high school degree (and even an eighth grade education in my grandparents' day) could get one a job where he would be trained on the job and could own a home and raise a family normally with a stay at home mom - people would rather blame those "losers" who have no skills or job prospects.
So agree with you Everdeen. Actually they have more opportunities to go to college as
perhaps they have a higher acceptance rate and more chances for economic aid if needed.
College is not for everyone. I have found that some of highest paid people I know are have
learned a trade and started their own business. Most are millionaires. There lots of paths
for a career and high schools need to spend more time on classes to give all students all
the options out there.
Actually it does exist in some public schools near reservation communities, sadly. We have a young African-American regular poster here, who said that when her family moved to the Bay Area, and her parents went to the school to enroll her in the gifted program, where she'd been in her previous school, the school officials refused to believe that she was qualified, in spite of the parents providing test scores, grades, and other diagnostic material. They insisted the test scores, etc. weren't hers. The parents had to threaten a lawsuit in order to get her enrolled in the program.
Stuff happens.
Stuff happens everywhere. Against every minority and non minority group. If you want to make an incendiary comment like that, go to P & C. They love that kind of stuff. Don't paint educators with that wide brush.
Back to the OP.
College is not for everyone. My husband, a white male, was steered away from college towards a trade because that was where his aptitude was.
I also went to a trade school when I was 21 years old because I was not mature enough for college. That maturity did not happen until I was in my late 20's.
There are some very good trades, and if you are ambitious, you can make a lot of money.
A few years ago, I was having a conversation with my principal and he said that we need to be readying every student for the rigor of college. When I disagreed and championed the trades for some, you would have thought I said something blasphemous in church. That type of thinking is changing now. Education is always on a pendulum.
And, for the record, you can go to school if that is what you want. I did it as a single mother with three children. It was not easy. There are re-entry centers for women at most colleges (I never used them, but they were helpful for some), grants, and many other options.
I'm a content writer and am very good at what I do. I make excellent money without a degree. That said, I'm in the process of going back to school. I highly doubt my job situation or income will change when I do finish school, but I'll be happy to have my degree as a back-up plan.
A better system might be one that helps "guide" students through different pathways (probably around 10th grade or so) based on aptitude or merit. Germany, for instance, has such a system. However in this country there are a number of reasons why this type of a system, while once popular, has fallen out of favor. Part of the issue is one of equality, part is that students were for some time (70s/80s) genuinely tracked early on in their academic careers without choice into the vocational-technical program. Then there was the racket that evolved from colleges becoming drunk off of student loan money and the government and loan providers not doing much about ensuring that there was some standard for students who were receiving loans.
No, no, no and NO! to the German system. It starts in about 5th grade, age 10, not 10th. From what I have read, it's getting a bit more flexible, but it's still pretty rigid. No allowance for "late bloomers" there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Everdeen
So does Finland. And because we have people making wildly inaccurate statements about people of color in this thread, it should be noted that they steer students away from college too and those countries are predominately white.
I swear if I hear one more word about the wonders of the Finnish system I'll shoot my computer. I'm old enough to remember when Japan was supposedly the role model for the world, until its system was examined and found to have some problems, too. No system is perfect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS
For the millionth time, the US tests ALL their students while most countries only test their top students - in some countries that is as low as 5%. So they certainly aren't testing special needs students or recent immigrants with language barriers.
To answer the original questions...well, it's what no one wants to hear. We have to tax companies that outsource jobs and reward companies that keep things in the country. We also have to make those jobs livable. People decry unions and ask why we can't be like previous generations that "picked themselves up by their boot straps". Yet rather than acknowledge that at one time a high school degree (and even an eighth grade education in my grandparents' day) could get one a job where he would be trained on the job and could own a home and raise a family normally with a stay at home mom - people would rather blame those "losers" who have no skills or job prospects.
What were taxes during the 50s?
Definitely agree with the bold. I'm not so sure about your solution in the second paragraph, but I do agree with you that times have changed.
Ruth I probably should've put in this in the original question, but I can't go back to school. I need to work full time. My monthly living expenses are too high. I'm 35 with a child.
^^^This. I may bookmark this for future reference when one of the ubiquitous threads about "gap years", not going to shortly after high school, etc, pops up. This is what makes it hard to go back to school after you have had the family, bought the house, etc.
No, no, no and NO! to the German system. It starts in about 5th grade, age 10, not 10th. From what I have read, it's getting a bit more flexible, but it's still pretty rigid. No allowance for "late bloomers" there.
I swear if I hear one more word about the wonders of the Finnish system I'll shoot my computer. I'm old enough to remember when Japan was supposedly the role model for the world, until its system was examined and found to have some problems, too. No system is perfect.
Definitely agree with the bold. I'm not so sure about your solution in the second paragraph, but I do agree with you that times have changed.
What would the solution be though? I get not wanting unions, but what's wrong with an import tax that would entice companies to keep their shops here? What's wrong with stopping the abusive farce that internships have become because companies are too cheap to offer on-the-job training? And why have we credentialed things (like medical coding) that people did forever without a $6,000 certificate?
What would the solution be though? I get not wanting unions, but what's wrong with an import tax that would entice companies to keep their shops here? What's wrong with stopping the abusive farce that internships have become because companies are too cheap to offer on-the-job training? And why have we credentialed things (like medical coding) that people did forever without a $6,000 certificate?
I'm not totally rejecting your tax idea, I'd just like to give it some more thought before supporting it.
The other ideas deserve a look too, I'm just not ready to jump on the bandwagon.
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