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We always hear how "dumbed down" education has gotten, but has it really? For those that graduated HS in the 80s/90s how do you think the way you were educated was? Were teachers more involved, work harder, instruction better, etc. etc.?
Pre-NCLB and all these new changes was education really better?
I was a student in the 80s and 90s and a teacher in the 2000s.
Teachers are teachers. There will always be motivated ones and not-so-motivated ones. I was taught by both kinds, and have worked with both kinds. Just like any field. There are those who are on fire for what they do and those who are paycheck players.
Teaching looks different, yes. It looks different now than when I was first certified to teach (1999). It looks different now than it did ten years ago. "Better" is subjective. Trends come and go in educational practices, always have and always will. Most teachers don't even have consensus on which methods they think are best or most effective, within the field, and what is widely considered "best" changes over time.
Focus on standardized testing results as a measure of eligibility for determining school funding has obviously had serious ramifications. Common core curriculum's effects will become revealed over time. Teachers' time is quite differently allotted now than when I was first certified. In special education, my official, written-out job description went from spelling out that 80% of my time would be dedicated to direct instruction and duties related to that, and 20% of my time would be spent on IEP case management duties - the conferring with IEP team members, compiling data to write and revise IEPs, convening meetings annually and as needed to review and revise IEPs, maintaining contact with parents and other team members, conducting alternate assessments, assuring that all state and federal paperwork was in compliance per student, etc. By the time I left my position in 2013, that ratio was reversed. I was by then expected to be focusing on the compliance paperwork end of IEP case management 80% of the time, with 20% of the time to be devoted to actively teaching children. The hiring of a process coordinator to oversee the bureaucratic end of the job would have freed up the time allowing me to do what I was trained to do and the reason I joined the profession - actually teach kids. I would say my instruction was at its best when I was actually allowed to do it, versus handle paperwork most of the day. Special ed is a very specific instance, in terms of mountainous paperwork, but I didn't always teach special ed, and paperwork requirements have gone up across the board. A large percentage of teachers' time is spent collecting and managing increasingly exhaustive data.
Students look more different than teachers look, I think. They are growing up in a different world, are accustomed to different expectations, in terms of workload, attending to activities, even maintaining engagement for a specified length of time in class. They have been raised in a high-speed, information society, and this has created different skill sets, while other skill sets have atrophied. Parenting looks different than it did, as well, which results in different environmental factors that shape students' motivation, skills, abilities, how they respond to schooling, and how they individually value their own education.
Many factors including but not limited to the ability of the student body. I agree with the first poster. Some children are "taught more and faster".
Just since my oldest graduated high school and my youngest started kindergarten so much has changed.
I will state that my children had/have on their plate a lot more than I. Homework consists of hrs of work that I just didn't have when I graduated.
My elementary and middle school children on average have at least an hour computer homework, minimum one hour reading every night. That's 2 hrs after school each day before whatever math or English papers they have. Then if they have projects for science or other course work on top of that each day. It's a lot.
When my oldest started high school I was really impressed with the workload and what she was learning.
I'll give you an example here though. Not all courses are created equal. Talking with the school directly I was surprised to learn something.
Let's take one class. Chemistry.
None of my daughters friends had this standard class that I thought was excellent and beyond what I did in Chemistry in high school. I learned that the majority in the school had a class called ChemCom. They were placed in that class due to early testing and progress noted since middle school in our district along with state testing.
You can call it what you will but the reality it's Chemistry for dummies. The kids are auto assigned this class as the required credit. They get their A and think they have mastered something.
The friend never had homework and the class was a easy A.
Now regular Chemistry is also just the basic credit for graduation. It's not a honors class.
What we have done is not just have honors classes and college prep classes anymore with a core of classes you need to graduate. We have different levels of the general course classwork as well.
Some students are learning a lot more and some students are graduating while spending their time in remedial type classes that are given non remedial status.
Same with Algebra and other classes.
There are many classes that are dumb-downed and used as the requirement to graduate. Just by course description and the name of the class you can't always tell.
My daughter and her friend were both honor roll students. Although my daughter wasn't in many honors classes (just English) her workload was considerably higher than her friend.
Her Algebra classes consisted of nightly homework and more quizzes. Her friends Algebra class never gave homework and had more open book tests with the answers available to look up.
Just a different course number and slightly different description in the schools catalog.
But hey, All I learned in kindergarten was to tie my shoes, take naps and play with other children.
They offer French as a second language to kindergarteners at my youngest school.
Well, not just teachers but the curriculum as well, do you think it was better and less white washed?
Curriculum varies.
In some subjects, when I was a student in the 80s-90s, the curriculum was quite good. I modified a lot of it for my own classes when teaching in the 2000s-2010s. I didn't experience especially whitewashed curriculum.
Location: Approximately 50 miles from Missoula MT/38 yrs full time after 4 yrs part time
2,308 posts, read 4,120,914 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WorkingMan86
We always hear how "dumbed down" education has gotten, but has it really? For those that graduated HS in the 80s/90s how do you think the way you were educated was? Were teachers more involved, work harder, instruction better, etc. etc.?
Pre-NCLB and all these new changes was education really better?
....OK,... here's the opinion of a senior, senior citizen. You can agree or disagree, I really don't care, however I've lived long enough (going on 84 years) to observe the decline (IMHO) in "the quality of education-in-general" through the past 50 years or so.
In my "grade school days" I was taught by Sisters-of-Mercy...................believe me, when you graduated, you were very well prepared to enter High School.
Living in a suburban/rural area I went to the local public high school (approx 500 TOTAL students), that employed a group of dedicated teachers that truly wanted to see that you were prepared to go on to college.....if that was a possibility based on each individual students circumstances.
...(SIDE NOTE):>>>.(It should be mentioned here that approx 25% of all my class mates and I from 6th grade on through graduation from high school.............had some type of part-time job(s) throughout the school year AND approx 50% worked during their summer vacations). At least 50% of the money earned was "put-aside" for their future college expenses............for those students who knew they wanted to go on to college. Since the Korean War began a few weeks after graduation.............a certain percentage of the male graduates (class of 1950) ended up in the military. .. Since a single parent (my mom) had raised me since the age of 13, I took advantage of a college student deferment and went on to 4 years of working my way through college (Three part time jobs all four years and full time summer employment). Again, the (small, highly ranked college) I attended was staffed by a dedicated group of professors who had no political agenda or bias and truly wanted to see the student get the best college education possible in his choosen field.)
I realize "it was a different-world" back then.............however, I do believe that "in-general" my 16 years of education was collectively of a higher-quality than what I would have been able to avail my self of in the last 16 years.................Just my opinion folks based on my particular situation.
Many factors including but not limited to the ability of the student body. I agree with the first poster. Some children are "taught more and faster".
Just since my oldest graduated high school and my youngest started kindergarten so much has changed.
I will state that my children had/have on their plate a lot more than I. Homework consists of hrs of work that I just didn't have when I graduated.
My elementary and middle school children on average have at least an hour computer homework, minimum one hour reading every night. That's 2 hrs after school each day before whatever math or English papers they have. Then if they have projects for science or other course work on top of that each day. It's a lot.
When my oldest started high school I was really impressed with the workload and what she was learning.
I'll give you an example here though. Not all courses are created equal. Talking with the school directly I was surprised to learn something.
Let's take one class. Chemistry.
None of my daughters friends had this standard class that I thought was excellent and beyond what I did in Chemistry in high school. I learned that the majority in the school had a class called ChemCom. They were placed in that class due to early testing and progress noted since middle school in our district along with state testing.
You can call it what you will but the reality it's Chemistry for dummies. The kids are auto assigned this class as the required credit. They get their A and think they have mastered something.
The friend never had homework and the class was a easy A.
Now regular Chemistry is also just the basic credit for graduation. It's not a honors class.
What we have done is not just have honors classes and college prep classes anymore with a core of classes you need to graduate. We have different levels of the general course classwork as well.
Some students are learning a lot more and some students are graduating while spending their time in remedial type classes that are given non remedial status.
Same with Algebra and other classes.
There are many classes that are dumb-downed and used as the requirement to graduate. Just by course description and the name of the class you can't always tell.
My daughter and her friend were both honor roll students. Although my daughter wasn't in many honors classes (just English) her workload was considerably higher than her friend.
Her Algebra classes consisted of nightly homework and more quizzes. Her friends Algebra class never gave homework and had more open book tests with the answers available to look up.
Just a different course number and slightly different description in the schools catalog.
But hey, All I learned in kindergarten was to tie my shoes, take naps and play with other children.
They offer French as a second language to kindergarteners at my youngest school.
Yes, it all depends on the course load you take. Some kids get a top notch education even in lesser schools, and some kids just skate by and do the minimum.
My child is already doing Algebra in fourth grade. These concepts used to be taught in seventh and eighth grade.
Last edited by Meyerland; 06-04-2015 at 05:19 PM..
I think it is dumbed down in some areas, not so much in others. I think really that in general, it has been dumbed down, but, there are a whole lot more opportunities for students to pursue challenging classes than when I was in HS. All of this AP class stuff, going to college while in HS, this class, that class, did not exist as much as it does now.
I think opportunities are much better now days for students who want to strive ahead. But at the same time, I think the bar has been lowered in general for everyone.
I only know a couple of teachers personally, they have been teaching for few decades or so, they said things changed a lot, and not for the better, and they were glad to retire. Biggest thing they did not like was how parents started acting.
We always hear how "dumbed down" education has gotten, but has it really? For those that graduated HS in the 80s/90s how do you think the way you were educated was? Were teachers more involved, work harder, instruction better, etc. etc.?
Pre-NCLB and all these new changes was education really better?
Back then there was a 1 size fits all approach. If students couldn't cut it, they were on the outside looking in. It must have been harder because so many students started failing, in the 2000s, to meet the old standard. So they had to dumb down the curriculum and teaching methods. I guess some good came of it as now there are specialized high schools for the arts, sciences, trades, and gifted.
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