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Old 08-18-2015, 08:24 AM
 
2,513 posts, read 2,765,364 times
Reputation: 1739

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
My job isn't to teach. My job is to make sure they pass. THAT is what is being demanded of teachers. This is a problem with our system. If I fail too many students it's because I'm not doing my job. Reality is that often it's just the students don't try. You have to understand that what teachers have been tasked with is making sure everyone passes. That's why education keeps getting dumbed down. I've said it before and I'll say it again: The problem with our education system is that we fail to hold students accountable for learning.

This is one reason that I wish tenure were still around. Under the old system once a teacher tenured they could shut the door and teach and if doing so meant kids failed then they failed. Now we're at will employees so we have to do what our boss tells us and mine says that student failures are MY fault and are to be avoided.

Fortunately for me my school has adopted a retake policy on tests where students can retake the problems they got wrong as many times as they need to to get the grade they want. I still have to make sure the students do their retakes but there's no excuse for failure.
And that is the problem with today's educational system. I guess things have changed dramatically in 15 years. At what level is that being demanded? The purpose of educators is to teach. If kids can't learn, and shown that they've learned through appropriate testing, then the responsibility falls onto both the teachers and the parents to find out why a child isn't learning or if different teaching methods are required for a particular student or group of students. Teaching to merely pass is just putting our future on a collision course for disaster. Life is about failing and succeeding, and teaching for the sole purpose of making sure a kid passes does not prepare kids for the real world at 18 years old. And we wonder why every job requires a college education. Colleges don't care if a student passes or not.
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Old 08-18-2015, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Florida
4,103 posts, read 5,391,418 times
Reputation: 10105
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlemissrock View Post
The Asians who claw into US Universities usually failed to get into Universities in their own countries. American SAT math questions are problems Chinese sixth graders get for homework. That is not exaggerated.
Thats a supply and demand issue. The only way in China to get a successful and well paying job is through the University system. Families literally rely upon their kids getting into these Universities in order to provide for the rest of the family. Thats why they study so hard, because their families lives depend upon it. Therefore you have millions of very well educated students competing for few slots in the University system. That "studying out of desperation" has made these students far superior in educational levels than other Nations' students in comparison. Its not that our students are dumber or lazier, its that our students aren't competing in such a cutthroat world for relatively few well paying jobs.

Ironically this global economy that the government is pushing will significantly compound this issue. Your kids and your neighbors kids will be competing hand over fist for jobs that far more desperate kids want/need.
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Old 08-18-2015, 08:29 AM
 
2,513 posts, read 2,765,364 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incognitoe View Post
Really? I haven't mean an Asian Republican before. lol

As for throwing in money at a problem? How is education a problem?

If you car has a check engine light (a problem), do you throw money to fix it?

Speaking of throwing money to "fix" a problem. Didn't we spend almost a trillion bailing out Failing Republican Owned Corporations?

Aren't we currently spending TRILLIONS trying to fix the Middle East?

We could save trillions if we just left the middle east alone and have tons of money for Education.
Still boils down to parental involvement and expectations. I went to private school with several Asian Americans and their parents were very demanding but also very involved. Are parents in the white trash neighborhoods or the black ghettos demanding of their kids to get good grades? Its culturally different.

So, again, throwing money at the problem doesn't solve the education problem. More money is actually spent locally in the worst schools in the worst areas of town and the kids still under perform. Why? Little to no expectations and little to no parental involvement. Unless treating school like daycare is considered "parental involvement".
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Old 08-18-2015, 08:46 AM
 
756 posts, read 827,996 times
Reputation: 886
Lightbulb It Isn't That:

Quote:
Originally Posted by littlemissrock View Post
Americans have a certain reputation for being stupid internationally. After careful comparison, it is obvious that the American public school system is very easy compared to other countries especially Asian countries.
Americans have a reputation for being stupid internationally (and usually Americans are proud of this reputation) but it isn't the school system that is flawed. Every thing else is too.
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Old 08-18-2015, 09:52 AM
 
922 posts, read 799,061 times
Reputation: 1515
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguydownsouth View Post
Thats a supply and demand issue. The only way in China to get a successful and well paying job is through the University system. Families literally rely upon their kids getting into these Universities in order to provide for the rest of the family. Thats why they study so hard, because their families lives depend upon it. Therefore you have millions of very well educated students competing for few slots in the University system. That "studying out of desperation" has made these students far superior in educational levels than other Nations' students in comparison. Its not that our students are dumber or lazier, its that our students aren't competing in such a cutthroat world for relatively few well paying jobs.

Ironically this global economy that the government is pushing will significantly compound this issue. Your kids and your neighbors kids will be competing hand over fist for jobs that far more desperate kids want/need.
Well actually, in China the average salary for a trade school graduate is a lot higher than a university graduate these days.

Curriculum in Europe is also harder than in the US.
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Old 08-18-2015, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Huntsville, AL
2,852 posts, read 1,593,658 times
Reputation: 5445
This is just MY opinion...

Little Johnny (LJ) sits in a classroom with a teacher who is watching over 30 other students.
LJ is a child of a single parent.
LJ sits in the back of the classroom continuously disrupting the class.
LJ doesn't get any discipline at home - his mom/dad is too busy working trying to make ends meet.
LJ's little bottom doesn't get blistered when LJ does something that deserves such discipline.
LJ is 'baby sat' with the tv - the internet - some $5.00 an hour kid in the neighborhood who's more interested in talking on the phone than seeing that LJ does his homework.
LJ's teacher sends LJ home with a note telling LJ's mom that LJ has ADHD.
LJ's mom gets LJ a prescription for some medicine that puts LJ in a sleep mode, calming him down and no longer disrupting the class... he's now sleeping.
Today's classroom exercise is a test - LJ's baby sitter didn't help him to study.
LJ has been sleeping in class, so guess what his test scores revealed?
LJ's dumbed down because LJ's lifestyle makes it happen.
He doesn't get the attention he needs.
He is taking pills that puts him basically to sleep in class...

And the cycle continues...
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Old 08-18-2015, 10:41 AM
 
5,774 posts, read 5,057,136 times
Reputation: 7992
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxtheRoadWarrior View Post
First, I don't agree with the original premise. I say this as someone who constantly looks at our international rankings and the disparities that may exist as a consequence of our system; I don't think that the system is "dumbed down." There are all sorts of criticisms that could be leveled, but "dumbed down" isn't one of them. In fact, we are unique among many Western nations in our expectation that all students take some sort of higher level class. Most schools, including my own, are constantly pushing students to take college level courses or courses in advanced STEM fields. Well over half of the student body at the school in which I teach take pre-calculus prior to graduation, and this is in what most would call a poor school system.

The general level of education in the United States is grossly misrepresented, and people buy into it because specious arguments are sometimes the most appealing. Do I have many students performing well below grade level because of failings earlier in their career? Sure. Are some of the things they don't know disconcerting? Absolutely. But you are deluding yourself if you don't think this is a problem almost anywhere around the world. In the United States we have our lows, highs, and middles, just like everyone else. The objective reality is that the United States remains one of the most educated societies in the world, though with some serious philosophical flaws.

America's education system was always one that was meant to underwrite industry, not the other way around. Our motivation has been, and will like always be, the inculcation of capitalistic and puritanical values, and as a nation we are struggling to adapt a system that was ideal in the late 19th and early 20th centuries to the exigencies of the digital age. It isn't a problem of rigor, it is a problem of philosophy.
Basically, too many dumb and poorly educated parents are having too many dumb and poorly raised kids; they outnumber the smart, dedicated and the well raised kids by a huge margin. The teachers are forced to teach to the mediocre and the dumb majority because their jobs are based on the test scores of all kids (with the dumb ones outnumbering and overwhelming the smart and the dedicated ones). Hence you have lowest common denominator teaching with the smart kids being ignored. If they have well off parents, they are taken out of the system and placed in better functioning private schools. If not, then they are basically wasted by this dysfunctional system.
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Old 08-18-2015, 11:00 AM
 
11 posts, read 10,494 times
Reputation: 49
I'll chime in from what I can see.

1. The school system really doesn't teach students how to think, but rather how to pass a test (we need measurable results!). This is also the case when the school receives its funding based off of test scores.

2. There are some parents who believe that it is the school's job to practically raise their kids. So when a kid's grades start to slip, it isn't their fault, its the school's fault.

3. A lot of programs tend to get cut back, usually due to budget cuts or so the school can focus on testing.

4. Depending on the school district, you might have a teacher who has given up (these kids refuse to learn). Or you have students who give up (I do not plan on going to college or there really is no point in earning an education because of x).
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Old 08-18-2015, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,618 posts, read 86,577,260 times
Reputation: 36637
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
I spent years of frustration learning trigonometry and stereometry and all kinds of algebra in my high school. What for? Was waste of time.
You're right. It was hoped that such studies would teach critical and analytical thinking skills, but it obviously doesn't always.
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Old 08-18-2015, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Florida
4,103 posts, read 5,391,418 times
Reputation: 10105
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlemissrock View Post
Well actually, in China the average salary for a trade school graduate is a lot higher than a university graduate these days.

Curriculum in Europe is also harder than in the US.
Id have to look that up and verify that because its news to me. The whole reason that we export manufacturing to China is because of the absurdly low wages paid to blue collar workers. The description I gave earlier comes from first hand conversations that Ive had with Chinese students at my Uni, and there are a LOT.
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