Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Americans have a certain reputation for being stupid internationally. After careful comparison, it is obvious that the American public school system is very easy compared to other countries especially Asian countries.
Europeans, especially those that have never been to the US, harbor all kinds of inaccurate and often silly ideas about the US. I learned this after working in Europe. So any 'reputation' they have assigned to us as a group should usually be dismissed as drivel.
Are there problems with education in the US? Sure. For one, we pass way too many students who really haven't learned a a thing. It's become a self esteem building exercise. But overall education that is offered in the US is quite good.
Europeans, especially those that have never been to the US, harbor all kinds of inaccurate and often silly ideas about the US. I learned this after working in Europe. So any 'reputation' they have assigned to us as a group should usually be dismissed as drivel.
Are there problems with education in the US? Sure. For one, we pass way too many students who really haven't learned a a thing. It's become a self esteem building exercise. But overall education that is offered in the US is quite good.
Its true. European opinion is entirely informed by the excesses of American pop culture and screaming headlines, and by the screen presence of some rather buffoonish politicians. I say that having been born in a European country and living there for the first 25 yrs. of my life. After getting over my jingoism (about 3-4 years after moving to the US) and being more honest with myself ...the scales fell from my eyes. My compatriots still make astoundingly uninformed comments about the US. I forgive them, however, based on me formerly being the same.. and try to gently correct them.
Its true. European opinion is entirely informed by the excesses of American pop culture and screaming headlines, and by the screen presence of some rather buffoonish politicians. I say that having been born in a European country and living there for the first 25 yrs. of my life. After getting over my jingoism (about 3-4 years after moving to the US) and being more honest with myself ...the scales fell from my eyes. My compatriots still make astoundingly uninformed comments about the US. I forgive them, however, based on me formerly being the same.. and try to gently correct them.
Thanks for the confirmation. I love Europe and the people there but unfortunately they do have a rather distorted view of the US and in large part for the very reasons you mentioned.
Americans have a reputation for being stupid internationally (and usually Americans are proud of this reputation) but it isn't the school system that is flawed. Every thing else is too.
Funny that we have more international students in our university system than any other country in the world, we have the strongest economy, we lead in technology development, I think we still lead as best place for employment, I think we rank first or second as an international tourist destination. Not bad for a bunch of dummies.
So, where are you from? Is this just European self aggrandizing, or are you one of those self deprecating American pessimists?
And that is the problem with today's educational system. I guess things have changed dramatically in 15 years. At what level is that being demanded? The purpose of educators is to teach. If kids can't learn, and shown that they've learned through appropriate testing, then the responsibility falls onto both the teachers and the parents to find out why a child isn't learning or if different teaching methods are required for a particular student or group of students. Teaching to merely pass is just putting our future on a collision course for disaster. Life is about failing and succeeding, and teaching for the sole purpose of making sure a kid passes does not prepare kids for the real world at 18 years old. And we wonder why every job requires a college education. Colleges don't care if a student passes or not.
It comes from the top down.
I gave the example earlier of Michigan's decision to require chemistry or physics for all students regardless of their background or abilities. By requiring that students pass these classes to graduate I am being mandated to pass them. In theory the class wasn't supposed to change but the reality is that only the top third to half of the class used to take these classes (and some of them failed with the old standards) so they must change to accommodate the bottom of the class taking them. Now that everyone takes them there is no choice but to dummy down the classes as preventing one half to two thirds of students from graduating because they can't pass chemistry or physics is not acceptable in anyone's book.
IMO the decision to require classes like chemistry, physics and algebra II for graduation was a stupid one. Anyone with half a brain will realize that the only way this can happen is if we dummy down these classes to accommodate the fact that only the top students used to take them. As a teacher if I fail half of my students I will be without a job but fail half of them is what would happen if I tried to hold them to the standards I was held to in high school when chemistry was optional and it was keep up or drop the class.
I agree that we're putting the future on a collision course for disaster but I do not have the power to change this. There was a time when unions could protect teachers who chose to teach to high standards in spite of the system but that is no more. The truth of the matter is if I don't do it someone else will and I'll just be out of a job.
I pride myself on teaching to high standards by today's standards and will continue to do so. Even with my higher standards I still pass most of my students and can honestly say I've never failed a student who was trying. Usually they pass on their own merit but I've been known to help them a bit as I see no justice in letting failing chemistry stand between them and graduation if they are giving it their all.
The issue of passing students is systemic. Students arrive in my class unable to read and unable to do the math required of the course because they have been passed on at every level in spite of their shortcomings and it's my job to make sure they pass my class. As long as chemistry or physics are required for graduation this will be my task. If they ever go back to being optional college prep courses I'll be able to raise the bar without losing my job.
I do agree with you that I am not preparing my students for the real world but that is not the job I have been tasked with (I wish it were). For example, I'm told that I must offer retakes on tests because LIFE allows you to take as many chances as you need (the usual example is the drivers test that you can take over and over and no one holds it against you that you took 6 tries to pass....). Reality is the real world notices if one person gets it the first time and someone else needs three tries and it rewards accordingly but this argument falls on deaf ears.
As to colleges, SOME colleges don't care of you pass or not. Others realize there is big money to be made by keeping students in school. I've heard of colleges that are now giving retakes on tests like we're doing at the high school level.
Well actually, in China the average salary for a trade school graduate is a lot higher than a university graduate these days.
Curriculum in Europe is also harder than in the US.
Many European countries track their students at a semi-young age so there is only one curriculum by country that can actually be described as such. The other curricula are more geared towards vo-tech.
I'm just about a senior in high school, and we have a wide range of socioeconomic levels of kids within the grades. In the HS, we have three levels of classes: AP, the most difficult, honors, the second most difficult, and the lowest of the three are the "regular" classes, which have no special designation.
For the first month of last year, I was placed in "regular" Algebra II, which was full of poor kids who would interrupt the teacher every five minutes, and by the time I was reassigned into the AP class, we still hadn't finished Chapter 1.
the poor kids need to be booted out the door, and their parents need to have their government benefits revoked. they simply don't care and just cause a ruckus all day in class until they are released at 3:30 to smoke pot in the bad area of town.
Americans have a certain reputation for being stupid internationally. After careful comparison, it is obvious that the American public school system is very easy compared to other countries especially Asian countries.
In America, you have to shop around for the right schools. The best ones tend to be in upscale parts of most metro areas.
it so the dumber student in the class would look like he got educated, all political correctness, little johnny cant have his feeling hurt because he stupid.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
but it isn't the school system that is flawed. Every thing else is too. 
