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Community expectations do have a huge influence on the quality of the school. One district near us, the expectation is that you graduate from high school, MAYBE go on to a tech school to learn a trade, but mostly you get married young and work on your family farm. The quality of the schools in that area really aren't very good. Classes are pretty basic, really no advanced/AP type classes, etc. Most of the families are pretty well off, successful farmers, and white since that seems to matter to some posters here. Our community, education matters. Most kids are expected to graduate and go on to a 4 year college, and 95% of the kids do just that. Course offerings at the school reflect that, full load of AP classes, several foreign language class choices, etc.
Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner here! Schools reflect the community. I am fortunately in a state where even if the community has a less educated populace, the schools still have good opportunities. Some of our city schools actually offer things the suburban parents would kill for, so sending your kid there is sacrificing them to the wolves as some people here think.
My theory is that people should just shut up when it comes to judging other schools. I know it's human nature to want to one up everyone, but people simply sound foolish when they think they know how "bad" another school is when they've never even entered it.
Personally, I think we could go a long way by simply working with at risk kids and their parents.
So in other words you are saying that you are doing the same thing as everyone else, but YOU are doing it for the right reasons, but everyone else is only doing it because they are snobby? In other words, you think you are better than all the other parents doing the exact same thing as you? But you think they are snobby, and not you?
In other words...you didn't get it.
Who said anything about anyone being snobby? Where did I condemn parents doing what I do?
Can you make the difference between game and player?
People are forced to play a nasty game. Until game changes via macro-level measures, people will continue to play a nasty game and try to be very good at it.
If you can't differentiate between game and player, more homework is needed. May want to study along with your kid.
Solutions for a better and more just education system are not always at the individual level - as in everyone trying to do the best for THEIR kid, everyone pushing THEIR kid ahead of everyone else's or ahead of whoever they can surpass.
This is the ONLY thing an individual can do.
At the macro, legal, policy level there are always measures that can be implemented for a more just educational system where children's chances will not entirely depend on their parents' background - which background is tremendously different from group to group.
No mater how much homework they do and how much their parents push, children of underprivileged parents in this country, on average, will always end up with a very sour deal out of the current educational system.
This has noting to do with what I choose to do or with what other individuals choose to do.
Huge legislation overhaul would be needed - and not just in the education area.
In the meantime, all we have as individuals is run like rats, steal childhoods from our children, elbow our way so OUR kid can get ahead of everyone else's KID.
Kids can learn but really cant count on parents to help them as they lack education to be their mentors.
This in itself is a horrible flaw in the system.
Kids should NOT have to count on parents to learn because kids didn't get to choose their parents.
Most parents don't know much about education (I disagree that they don't care); even if they have all the best intentions in the world they simply do not know how to help little Johnny navigate the "learning waters" so Johnny will become really well educated.
Continuing to blame underprivileged, under-educated parents and continuing to sing the praises of the well-positioned parents for all the homework they do with their children (they or their hired tutors) - is actually a very bad idea.
Never mind fundamentally unjust - in a country that prides itself on "equal opportunity".
That can be done anywhere - I see plenty of kids thrive in inner city schools. But I have a feeling you're one of those moms constantly on the lookout for bullying to the point that anything will be considered bullying or you're just going to give your kid a huge complex with your insecurities.
Not at all.
It is a given they will encounter socially challenging and hurtful situations in school. I consider that an integral part of their learning experience towards building critical social and problem solving skills. When they arise, we discuss the particular situation at length so they can better understand the dynamics and factors involved, and how best to respond.
But this does not apply to the scenario presented, where a lone child is basically perceived as so different, so foreign, so "other" from all of the other homogenous kids such that they are unable to relate to that outlier kid. So some will react in a negative way towards that kid who is sticking out like a sore thumb.
When the numbers are so unbalanced, the outsider kid finds it much harder to find their niche and integrate, and in the worst case scenario, may suffer long lasting psychological damage. This is an experience often shared by many who find themselves in this situation. Grown adults who although outwardly successful professionally and materially still harbor hurt from childhood traumas that manifests itself in various ways later in life. Why subject your kids to this knowingly when you have alternatives?
Skin color and socioeconomic class is but an outward manifestation of what can be perceived as so different about the outlier that makes them susceptible to the issues described. Not to say a more racially and socioeconomically diverse student population is without pitfalls, because kids will tend to cluster among those they deem relatable, and at this time that usually falls along racial and socioeconomic lines, but it would present more opportunities for integration and soften the glaring differentness of the outlier if they are not the only one in the student population, or are present in such low numbers that they might as well be the only one.
And every kid reacts differently to such situations. What is water off a duck's back for some is a lifelong scar for others. Neither one should be deemed the only right way to respond. As their parent I know the traits my kids possess, and that factors into how I define a "good" school that would best match those traits.
But you can continue to believe what you want and make your assumptions based on your own biases.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchorhead1977
Ever hear that phrase "prepare your child for the path; not the path for your child"?
OP, if you are looking for a "good" school, you had better do some research on each and every school you are considering sending your children to, and above all, pray for wisdom. You are seriously going to need it. I have never known the school system, public or private to be safe.
This in itself is a horrible flaw in the system.
Kids should NOT have to count on parents to learn because kids didn't get to choose their parents.
Most parents don't know much about education (I disagree that they don't care); even if they have all the best intentions in the world they simply do not know how to help little Johnny navigate the "learning waters" so Johnny will become really well educated.
Continuing to blame underprivileged, under-educated parents and continuing to sing the praises of the well-positioned parents for all the homework they do with their children (they or their hired tutors) - is actually a very bad idea.
Never mind fundamentally unjust - in a country that prides itself on "equal opportunity".
We have a fundamental difference in beliefs.
I believe that if someone works harder than someone else, then they deserve to secure an advantage for themselves and their family/children.
You believe that no one should ever get an advantage based on their parents, period.
This is Chinese philosophy vs Russian philosophy. Chinese parents sacrifice everything for their children, to give them the best. Russian parents give their children to the state, so the state can give all children absolutely equal opportunity.
I disagree with your basic philosophy. This is too fundamental a difference, we will never be able to agree.
Good schools have good test scores. I know some will chime in with their exceptions and protestations but that's the reality.
That's what it comes down to, which is unfortunate. My dad was a principal of economically mixed school - some wealthy, most upper to lower middle class, some on Section 8. I was amazed at all the opportunities, advanced classes and extracurriculars his school offered and every year they'd have a ton of kids going to great colleges. But his test scores were always low because of the mix.
That's what it comes down to, which is unfortunate. My dad was a principal of economically mixed school - some wealthy, most upper to lower middle class, some on Section 8. I was amazed at all the opportunities, advanced classes and extracurriculars his school offered and every year they'd have a ton of kids going to great colleges. But his test scores were always low because of the mix.
Which is why people advocate to look beyond test scores. That happens more often than is realized.
Always take to full picture into consideration, don't JUST look for the highest test scores.
Most states also offer "report card" type websites where you can seperate the test results by race/socioeconomic status. I was slightly concerned about the test scores at my kids' high school, but when I seperated it out, the white, non-poverty students do just as well at this high school as they do at the other, higher performing high schools. It's simply that there is a larger contingent of lower-SES students here than there are at the other school, and they bring the scores down.
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