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CTY, DukeTIP, Vanderbilt VSA and other similar programs have the kids take the SAT in 7th grade. The programs that they are eligible to attend are based on their 7th grade test scores.
Ah thanks!! That makes sense, because I do remember being at a local party and a parent was complaining about the SAT not being a true IQ test and any smart private schooled kid could have been exposed to college level material while a smarter poorer kid might not have... So that was why CTY was bogus to her. I completely forgot about that until I read this!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear
There is a program at Northwestern. There is also one at Vanderbilt. My son did one class at the Duke and another at Vanderbilt. They all accept your test scores from other programs. Both Duke and Vandy programs were fun for my son. I think that they may accept kids from outside their normal region but for younger kids you probably want to keep them close to home. My son had to fly to the middle school classes.
Yeah, sounds like too much for smaller kids. I agree I would not fly mine anywhere until at least middle school.
My husband told me that the programs have kind of a gentleman's agreement not to poach brainiacs from one another, hence the sticking to particular regions when they recruit. Once in students can do the others' summer programs and such. LOL
Oh..offtopic. this is going to get me so flamed But don't even get me started on doctors
As someone with some chronic health issues that have been utterly and entirely unhelped by numerous medical professionals...and having known many others in similar boat...it's a sad fact that patients arming themselves with as much information as they can (especially now that scientific research is so readily available) tends to prove much more necessary and important than blindly trusting doctors' expertise...to the point of saving lives in some cases. I could tell a lot of stories. But I won't go there.
(PS. I know what's coming OMG NOW YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF SO SPECIAL THAT YOU THINK YOU'RE SMARTER THAN AN EXPERT WHO SLAVED AWAY IN MED SCHOOL. HOW DISRESPECTFUL YADDA YADDA.)
Please don't bother
Professionals -teachers, doctors, whoever - are to be respected, yes. There are great ones out there that really know what they're doing. But I believe that ultimately you can't always blindly rely on anyone to do the best for your situation. No one out there really cares about you or your child aside from yourself and immediate family. Sad story.
Well to be fair, I don't think anyone is truly suggesting blind faith in the teacher. I think the general consensus is to give the teacher a chance and see what happens. Have your conference, see what she recommends, watch the results of what is implemented, then react accordingly. But it sounds like that's what you were already planning on.
Plus, didn't you say this was half day kindergarten? If he's only there for 2 minutes a day on top of it I wouldn't expect much! LMAO!
Well, as I said above - I'm sure there's a limit to the level of the in-class assessments, isn't there? No matter how great of a teacher she is.
I'm assuming they're based around an average level expected in K. I really doubt she's going to give him third-fourth grade level work to see whether he can do it - but perhaps I'm wrong?
Maybe stop with the assuming. Many of the common assessments basically go to infinity (or rather, the natural limit of what's physically possible to do in the time allotted, like DIBELS) or to typical cutoff points like 6th grade, 8th grade, 12th grade, etc. Or they aren't measuring what grade level a kid is operating at, but rather produce norm-referenced scores for particular skills or knowledge.
Many teachers are interested in work samples from previous programming, and actual professional assessment data is always welcome, but any "tests" you've done yourself at home are frankly neither reliable nor valid, for a variety of reasons. They may be of interest of to the teacher, but it'd be rather poor professional conduct for the school to actually use them in instructional planning.
Maybe stop with the assuming. Many of the common assessments basically go to infinity (or rather, the natural limit of what's physically possible to do in the time allotted, like DIBELS) or to typical cutoff points like 6th grade, 8th grade, 12th grade, etc. Or they aren't measuring what grade level a kid is operating at, but rather produce norm-referenced scores for particular skills or knowledge.
Many teachers are interested in work samples from previous programming, and actual professional assessment data is always welcome, but any "tests" you've done yourself at home are frankly neither reliable nor valid, for a variety of reasons. They may be of interest of to the teacher, but it'd be rather poor professional conduct for the school to actually use them in instructional planning.
Ditto. Right now, I work as a literacy coach for ELL in K-4. Adults in general are VERY prone to prompting children. Even those of us who do this in a professional capacity need to constantly be vigilant about it. There are probably 20+ times a day I need to reign in myself with a reminder. Not to mention with my own kids.
Ditto. Right now, I work as a literacy coach for ELL in K-4. Adults in general are VERY prone to prompting children. Even those of us who do this in a professional capacity need to constantly be vigilant about it. There are probably 20+ times a day I need to reign in myself with a reminder. Not to mention with my own kids.
But how is it prompting if its a workbook he sits down on his own to do, often when I'm not even in the room
I agree prompts when we do something together can happen, but its not like we drill him on this stuff, much of it he does on his own, perhaps asking for help in explaining a concept once in a while
I have not read every post in this thread, I'm just a mom of a gifted "now adult" who was in a similar situation.
Said child entered kindergarten when she was not quite 5 because the cutoff was the end of September. I sought the opinion from the school principal, a seasoned older woman who I felt would have good advice. I explained that our daughter could read, did simple math, had an advanced vocabulary, preferred to play with older children, and had a unique interest in science especially dinosaurs. The principal encouraged me to put her in kindergarten when she was legally allowed, not to hold her back a year.
I will be the first to admit that I already knew my child was an introvert (as our both her parents, that being me and my husband!), was socially awkward with kids her own age (she had a difficult time entering a social situation that was already established), preferred books to people, was not interested in sports or even playing in teams (and later learned to hate group projects in school), and had some odd quirks about food/textures/jokes (sarcasm), etc. Some professionals we consulted over the years suggested that she meets quite a few criteria for Aspergers. And then some just said Aspergers criteria are very closely aligned with what we expect from gifted people...Sheldon-esque. Yes, we love Big Bang Theory in our house. To label or not to label, that is the question!
So I sent her off to this very highly rated public school with a kindergarten teacher who had been teaching that grade for over 15 years. School started at the beginning of September. By October she told me she was bored and the teacher told her that they needed to learn their alphabet and she was not allowed to read in class. By the end of October the teacher told me that my child was found hiding behind the bookshelf a few times when they could not locate her during recess on the playground. In November I received a call at work that she had thrown the macaroni necklace project on the table and disappeared into the hallway...they couldn't find her. Eventually she was found sitting on the floor between the tall book stacks in the library, quietly reading. Even the librarian didn't know she was there. In December and January she experienced some mystery illness that the pediatrician couldn't diagnose, but anyone who knew our daughter feared the worst...she looked like she had leukemia, pasty white, sunken dull eyes, lethargic. She seemed to recover after a bit, went back to school having missed about 6 weeks, the teacher seemed to be warmer towards her. But at the end of the school year there were two children recommended to be held back, our daughter and another girl with the same birth date. I might mention that there were quite a few immature boys between the AM and PM sessions, parents of these boys who had conversation with me about wanting to hold their boys an additional year hoping for maturity (vs making them more physically eligible for sports by high school) yet none of them were held back.
Long story short, we found a very progressive teacher in the next zone over who we interviewed for about 3 hours before deciding she would be a good fit for our daughter. She let our daughter fly in reading, encouraging her to check out lots of books on library day, adjusting questions in class to specific levels (some kids were asked to point out a specific alphabet letter, our daughter might be asked to point out the silent e at the end that makes the first vowel say its name), always had interesting science projects going in class (I remember the nature walks, ladybug farm, and butterfly metamorphosis activities)...in short, this was a great year.
Then it was back to the zoned school for first grade with no choice of teachers because we were not there in the current kinder class to get first dibs. In short, first grade sucked. But we were encouraged to have her tested for IQ, and entrance to the gifted program starting in 3rd grade. We decided to have her tested privately as my husband worked in the district and did not prefer the district psychologists' methods. We had her tested at a well-respected university that offered testing services to the public. Her results showed her as gifted, but as some of the above have mentioned, somewhat uneven. Her verbal scores were off the child chart. So certain subtests were administered using the adult scale. On the other hand, her spacial scale was gifted but not to the extent of the verbal.
In the end we started homeschooling full time in 4th grade when she was being teased by other students when she attended the gifted pull out program, other parents in the neighborhood with kids in the same grade started complaining to the school when they found out she was not held responsible for work done in the classroom while she was gone (they felt if their kids had math homework, then our daughter should have to do the same plus the work they did in class...they did not understand that she had homework from her gifted classroom, nor did they care), and life just became miserable.
Our child is now finishing her thesis for a masters degree, still has trouble with social situations (late teenage years were really difficult as she experienced the dating scene, adulthood still leaves her feeling odd, still prefers older cohorts), still has food and texture quirks (she doesn't like her food to touch on her plate, doesn't like the texture of sweaters and tights, and NEVER would she wear pantyhose). Academics has always been easy for her but social interactions remain difficult.
My bottom line is that there is no guarantee that personality traits will change if you leave them in a conventional classroom. I don't believe they are trainable traits. Certainly our daughter still ,in her early 20s, has many of the same traits that she had in kindergarten. I wouldn't say that being in a conventional classroom changed anything about socializing, fine motor (or in her case large motor) skills, or her ability to learn. In the end, as a parent we all have to choose what is the next best move for our child. This is often made more difficult by opinions of extended family and friends. We struggled. We still struggle. But in the end she is a productive and independent citizen. I feel that I have succeeded as a parent. We have to remember that everyone is perfect just the way they are. Quit trying to label them or fix them as long as they are moving forward.
Thank you for sharing, utsci.
It's a shame that you've had to struggle so much with school along the way. And I think it's definitely a major shortcoming of our school systems that the gifted kids end up having to suffer just because they're different. Your experience is why its so important to have gifted programs where children get to interact with others on the same level, rather than being made fun of.
We love big bang theory too I actually make fun of my husband for reminding me of Shelton sometimes luckily ds is not too bad socially, better than both of us I would say which makes me really happy
Okay, I have another question - please only reply if you want to give an actual answer, not sharpen your sarcasm skills when I go into the conference, would it be a good idea to bring some of his work from home to show his actual level, rather than her just hearing it from me? Or would that be useless or seen as obnoxious?
I would not take anything in. This conference is for the teacher to update the parents on the students strengths, their weaknesses, what goals they would like to set for them and discuss (in my experience) what the assessments results were.
For instance we were told how many words per minute our son was reading and where that number put him on the charts. We were also shown his scores on things like reading fluency, phonemic awareness, reading accuracy and listening and reading comprehension levels.
Assessment information on math skills and levels were also shared.
At this point the teacher told us she knew he was ahead of the game and that she would assess further to see just how far ahead he was and would work out a plan to help him to continue to progress. We agreed to another meeting later in the month.
So if your conference is similar, at the end you would suggest (if the teacher has not or if you feel she has not seen him exhibit the levels you have at home) that you would like a follow up conference to discuss what can be done to assist him in progressing at a rate that you feel might be more suitable for his specific abilities. This first conference is simply not for that in depth discussion.
Now, food for thought. What are your long term goals for your son? Have you thought about his path and where it will take him in 3 yrs, 6 yrs, 9 yrs etc?
If he does continue to excel well above expected grade levels, what will happen when he is in the last grade level or two of elementary? Will you be willing to transfer him to the middle school/junior high so that he can continue on the same path, therefore skipping a grade or two? Or be able to transport him for part of the day?
Do you want him doing advanced classes but still in his peer age group? Or would you be okay with him being 10 yrs old in class with 13 yr olds who have started 'going steady' and/or dating? Or 13 yrs old with 16-18 yr olds who are driving and going on unsupervised dates?
What if he wants to play sports and can't because he is too young for the grade he is in?
My second oldest daughter teaches high school math and college level math as an adjunct professor. This summer she had a 12 yr old in her college algebra class who wanted to take Calculus in his school but they stopped him from progressing any further as it just wasn't feasible. So he opted to take a college course and dad was responsible for transporting him and being there for him as well.
Is that something you are willing and prepared to do as well.
Or.....would you be rather to let him be the 'big fish' in his peer group and enjoy being a child while at school and instead continue to supplement at home with things that he craves for challenges?
Do you want him doing advanced classes but still in his peer age group? Or would you be okay with him being 10 yrs old in class with 13 yr olds who have started 'going steady' and/or dating? Or 13 yrs old with 16-18 yr olds who are driving and going on unsupervised dates?
I haven't thought that far ahead in detail because honestly at this point I can't yet predict what his aptitude level be like at that point, what his interests and capabilities and strengths will be, what our circumstances will be as a family etc.
But ideally yes, I would like him in advanced classes in his age group. I would absolutely not be okay with skipping grades in school. The ideal scenario would be the full-time gifted program. By high school, there are many options to do AP or college-level work like Running Start which I would encourage him to take advantage of. However my concern at the moment is more in maintaining his motivation and that amazing curiousity and love of learning until he gets there. That's my worry, that he'll lose it somewhere along the way. If he's still driven, motivated, and learning-focused by high school, I'm not worried about him finding the right options.
If he keeps with the techy interests, my hope for him would be to get into the new STEM high school that opened here recently. It's a lottery school which is unfortunate. But from what I've heard (they did an article on it and interviewed students at local paper), t would be the perfect hs environment for that type of kid - there are no sports, no jocks and cheerleaders, no homecoming, and I'm assuming no to minimal bullying or other bs that comes with most high schools. It seems to be like a college campus already - made up of smart, focused students who are there because they want to learn, not create drama or win popularity contests. Perfect way around most teenage social problems imo.
More speculation on your part. Removing "jocks" and cheerleaders from a school does NOT eliminate the chance for bullying.
ANYONE can rank on any other kid. Band kids were the worst in our high school. But with smart kids, it's bad because you sometimes don't see it coming. They can get pretty creative.
My kid who was certified gifted had a HUGE problem with another kid in his program.
Intelligence certainly doesn't make you nicer.
Your best bet is to focus on one year at a time and learn firsthand rather than just imagining from home.
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Oh..offtopic. this is going to get me so flamed 
I actually make fun of my husband for reminding me of Shelton sometimes 
