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Does it really get THE message across? At least in my school the only messages it got across were:
a. Teacher is an idiot.
b. Boys get detention; girls get away with anything.
c. Individuals had the power to get the whole class in trouble. Yep, cut up enough and the whole class was punished for their actions. See Teacher is an idiot.
d. That's the worst they can do? Not so bad, just take the detention and total freedom to cut up because there's nothing more that they can do.
No where did any of the constant trouble makers get any message about not talking in class, or not cutting up, or any of the behaviors detention was supposed to stop. But a lot got the message that since the innocent would be punished alongside the guilty, there was no reason to follow the rules because the end result was the same.
It appears that you talking about schools sometime in the past. How much in the past?
In the school districts where I have worked detentions have changed significantly in the last 10 to 15 years, and especially the last 20 years. And, even before that many improvements and changes were made.
tnff, so are you talking about your school days? And, if so, how long ago was that?Your school and your experience may not have been the norm even back then. You really can not "blame" schools in 2015 for things that happened in your school in 2005 or 1995 or 1985. And you can not just assume that those things are still happening in most schools in 2015.
Regarding #c. In the now 40 years (OMG) since I started teaching I have never seen a class in my building where the whole class got into trouble for the actions of an individual or a small group of students, except for the teacher doing something very minor such as holding the entire class for a minute or two at lunch lunch time or recess. And, even that was rare, because the teacher would attempt to provide an appropriate punishment to the individual student or students causing the trouble.
If a teacher gave an entire class detention she or he would be the one in serious trouble with administration because they were not using appropriate behavior management strategies. And, that was true in my schools even back when I started teaching in 1975. Your experience in your school back in 1975 may have been different but you can not assume that all or most schools did it the same way. And you certainly can not assume that the same thing is happening today.
Last edited by germaine2626; 10-13-2015 at 09:26 AM..
The point of detention is one of the primary points of any punishment - deterrence. It's no different than the point of a fine of $75 for going 50 mph in a 40 mph zone, or a 60-day jail sentence for assault. The punishment serves as a deterrence to the individual in the future and to others who observe the consequences of the behavior in question.
Isn't this rather obvious?
Of course, detention is not perfect - like all punishments that have ever been or ever will be devised. But the point of having detention as a consequence for certain (mis)behaviors is clearly to deter the offender and others from misbehaving.
Yes, it was back in the day. But I would argue that with all the zero tolerance policies, today is in many ways worse. My point in this discussion however is not about detention policies now vs then, but whether detention is an effective strategy. I contend that it is only effective against the good students and had no or even opposite effect on the trouble makers.
Oh and as an example of the whole class punishment, a couple of seniors didn't bus their trays after lunch. Most of us had no clue what the principal was screaming about. So he punished the ENTIRE SENIOR CLASS for the whole semester. Did any of us learn anything? Well, yes, but not the lesson he intended. It was so stupid and overblown, we wore that like a badge of honor.
Yes, it was back in the day. But I would argue that with all the zero tolerance policies, today is in many ways worse. My point in this discussion however is not about detention policies now vs then, but whether detention is an effective strategy. I contend that it is only effective against the good students and had no or even opposite effect on the trouble makers.
Oh and as an example of the whole class punishment, a couple of seniors didn't bus their trays after lunch. Most of us had no clue what the principal was screaming about. So he punished the ENTIRE SENIOR CLASS for the whole semester. Did any of us learn anything? Well, yes, but not the lesson he intended. It was so stupid and overblown, we wore that like a badge of honor.
You apparently went to a school which practiced very ineffective discipline, starting with the principal. I will tell you from experience that just pulling out a detention assignment form, placing it on the desk of the student not displaying good learning behavior, and whispering to them "Please don't make me have to fill this out," does wonders to change their behavior. I seldom had to actually fill out that paper.
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The schools I've been in have done away with after school detention.
It's in school suspension now for 1 or 2 days with work sent down.
Either it's too many after school activities or no transportation home so they did away with after school detention.
Can't even do lunch detention either..lunch time is too short.
You apparently went to a school which practiced very ineffective discipline, starting with the principal. I will tell you from experience that just pulling out a detention assignment form, placing it on the desk of the student not displaying good learning behavior, and whispering to them "Please don't make me have to fill this out," does wonders to change their behavior. I seldom had to actually fill out that paper.
Well actually we had a very effective discipline system that worked pretty well. It was the detention part that was broken. Very ineffective and had the opposite effect than that intended. Instead of a form like you mentioned, it was totally teacher instantaneous on their personal feelings: "You have 30 minutes after school today." "You have an hour today and an hour tomorrow." "The whole class is getting 30 minutes." Things like that.
Well actually we had a very effective discipline system that worked pretty well. It was the detention part that was broken. Very ineffective and had the opposite effect than that intended. Instead of a form like you mentioned, it was totally teacher instantaneous on their personal feelings: "You have 30 minutes after school today." "You have an hour today and an hour tomorrow." "The whole class is getting 30 minutes." Things like that.
We never did detention the same day - transportation had to be arranged to get home, after all. Teachers at my last school who did crap like the bolded had to get their detention assignments approved, I didn't.
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Does anyone here remember the 1970s when detention was automatically assigned if you didn't turn in homework the very second it was due?!? Now they just take points off your homework.
other than to leave kids staring at the clock for an hour and harass parents?
I'm a long way from having kids myself, but I've already decided I want nothing to do with it. Someone wants to give my kid detention, they can make sure they get home safe or stick them in in-school.
I agree.....I made it clear with the teachers that my kids would be ON that bus EVERYDAY after school.
I also agree that it's more a punishment to the parents than the child...if they'll allow it...which I wouldn't.
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