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I'm asking this question because I am still on top of my HS'er and my 8th grader. I know when they have quizzes/tests/papers due thanks to the school's website. I have a parent account and I get to see everything that is going on. So does every other parent who sends their kid to this school.
This weekend, thanks to Halloween, I had a bunch of 14 year olds in my house.
So I asked the kids (they have been together for years at this school) what they thought of 8th grade so far.
General consensus: Hard.
One child pulled out an ancient flip phone and told me, "I'm not doing so good this year so this is my new phone". Parents took away his smart phone. The horror! But he still has his x-box, his iPad, etc. to distract him.
Later on that evening I had to drive a few kids home. On the way I asked them (they also said they did horribly on the science test, had been punished, etc.) how they study and if mom & dad were on their rear-ends as much as I was on my 8th grader's.
Crickets….until one piped up and said, "My parents want me to be responsible, you help (my son) him study? You know when he has a test? What do you make him do?" Then turned to my kid and said, "dude, you need to share".
But in the past I have been told that I'm too involved and need to let my kids fall flat on their faces on their own.
Why? I'm here to teach them how to study, to help them study, to make sure they are doing what they need to do to be successful in school and beyond. No one else is going to teach them that - not every kid is born with the innate skill set or drive to do so on their own. "Time management" speeches go in one ear and right out the other more often than they don't… you have to set an example at home.
Until they "get it"? Like my HS Jr. did in his Frosh year? I'm going to be on their rear-ends.
I don't understand why this is a "bad" thing and so many parents drop the ball during the grades/ages where children are going through a heck of a lot physically/mentally.
Why is it ok to work with your 3rd grader and stay on top of him/her, but not your 8th grader who hasn't "gotten it" quite yet? Why draw a line in the sand and toss your hands up in the air if your kid still needs you to stay on top of him/her when the "you're on your own, you should "get it by now"... isn't working FOR the child?
I'm sorry if this didn't make much sense.
I go back and forth between wondering if I'm helping my children or hurting them.
Think I am the wrong person to ask about this. I still want to check to see how my children are doing and they ate both 40 something. I am trying to wean myself from this responsibility by telling myself that I won't always be here and they need to learn to deal with life on their own; but do we ever stop being parents?
The answer to this question is "when they take the responsibility for their homework themselves." I think I am with you on this problem. Should our children's grades suffer just because they are too immature to do their work when they are intelligent to do their work? I say "no." Both my children were very intelligent "late bloomers." I think I would prefer that to the other way around.
Think I am the wrong person to ask about this. I still want to check to see how my children are doing and they ate both 40 something. I am trying to wean myself from this responsibility by telling myself that I won't always be here and they need to learn to deal with life on their own; but do we ever stop being parents?
The answer to this question is "when they take the responsibility for their homework themselves." I think I am with you on this problem. Should our children's grades suffer just because they are too immature to do their work when they are intelligent to do their work? I say "no." Both my children were very intelligent "late bloomers." I think I would prefer that to the other way around.
Should they "suffer"?? Should they be accountable? Yes. Should they feel the satisfaction of knowing that they earned the grade depending on what they accomplished? Yes. Parents who don't let them make mistakes, who don't let their kids fail are doing them an injustice, not a favor.
Failure is not a bad thing. It is a guaranteed and inevitable part of learning. In any and all endeavors, and especially as a learning organization, we will experience failure, as surely as a toddler will fall while learning to walk.
Unfortunately, in education, particularly in this high-stakes accountability era, failure has become the term attached to our persistent challenges. Wholesale problems, such as the achievement gap and the high school dropout rate, are labeled as "education failures." We argue over how to "prevent" more failure. Increasingly, failure has come to mean something terrible, something to be avoided, and shunned.
Quote:
John Dewey said it best: "Failure is instructive. The person who really thinks learns quite as much from his failures as from his successes."
Think I am the wrong person to ask about this. I still want to check to see how my children are doing and they ate both 40 something. I am trying to wean myself from this responsibility by telling myself that I won't always be here and they need to learn to deal with life on their own; but do we ever stop being parents?
The answer to this question is "when they take the responsibility for their homework themselves." I think I am with you on this problem. Should our children's grades suffer just because they are too immature to do their work when they are intelligent to do their work? I say "no." Both my children were very intelligent "late bloomers." I think I would prefer that to the other way around.
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Originally Posted by toobusytoday
Should they "suffer"?? Should they be accountable? Yes. Should they feel the satisfaction of knowing that they earned the grade depending on what they accomplished? Yes. Parents who don't let them make mistakes, who don't let their kids fail are doing them an injustice, not a favor.
Yes, they should be accountable.
In elementary and middle school my son was always one of the top students in his class (if not the top student). However, due to a variety of reasons (personality clash, laziness, stubbornness, not turning in work, skipping class) he flunked sophomore English. Yes, actually flunked, a giant F on his report card and he needed to figure out how to retake the class and still fit in all his required classes and AP classes.
Through, a fluke in the system, I did not realize that he was flunking until 10 days before the last day of school and it was too late for us or him to do anything about the grade. Although, we were worried that he would not get into a good University with an F on his record (wow, it certainly pulled down his grade point) he did. Plus, he got into the top University in the United States in his field for his doctorate and now he is doing post-doctorate research at the University that was recently ranked #1 in the world in his field.
He often says that he "owes it all to receiving that F". He says that before getting that F he would just "skate by" and do the minimum, rarely study, turn in crappy work, etc. which usually meant he got an A or a B. But, that teacher really made him work and did not take any excuses. And, with an F on his record he really needed to study to make sure that every HS grade after that was an A.
He truly believes that if he would have been able to "con his way" into passing with a C- or D he would never have accomplished everything that he has accomplished in his young life. Frankly, he was absolutely shocked that she gave him an F, even though he deserved it, but later on he actually thanked her for doing it.
In elementary and middle school my son was always one of the top students in his class (if not the top student). However, due to a variety of reasons (personality clash, laziness, stubbornness, not turning in work, skipping class) he flunked sophomore English. Yes, actually flunked, a giant F on his report card and he needed to figure out how to retake the class and still fit in all his required classes and AP classes.
Through, a fluke in the system, I did not realize that he was flunking until 10 days before the last day of school and it was too late for us or him to do anything about the grade. Although, we were worried that he would not get into a good University with an F on his record (wow, it certainly pulled down his grade point) he did. Plus, he got into the top University in the United States in his field for his doctorate and now he is doing post-doctorate research at the University that was recently ranked #1 in the world in his field.
He often says that he "owes it all to receiving that F". He says that before getting that F he would just "skate by" and do the minimum, rarely study, turn in crappy work, etc. which usually meant he got an A or a B. But, that teacher really made him work and did not take any excuses. And, with an F on his record he really needed to study to make sure that every HS grade after that was an A.
He truly believes that if he would have been able to "con his way" into passing with a C- or D he would never have accomplished everything that he has accomplished in his young life. Frankly, he was absolutely shocked that she gave him an F, even though he deserved it, but later on he actually thanked her for doing it.
As a teacher, I sometimes give F's at midterm just to shock students into studying harder, when I could have probably given them D's. The problem is this doesn't work very often. Maybe 1 out of 10 actually gets scared into really working. The rest are unaffected and simply don't seem to care that much. It always surprises me, but it's a fact that many students just don't care.
All of my kids knew from day one that they were responsible for their homework. They also knew that I had been teaching them how to learn, how to be organized and how to be responsible from very early on, so this was nothing new.
My outside involvement varied from heavy to virtually nothing from kid to kid, assignment to assignment and grade to grade. Once they hit 4th grade at the latest, my participation was usually nothing but asking if they had any homework unless they asked for assistance. That was always available.
My oldest was a solid A/B student who struggled early on with reading and math, so involvement with her lasted a little longer than the other 3. She is now a 4th grade teacher and a really good one.
My second was a straight A student who only needed to be asked about homework for the most part. She did most of her learning by listening so homework was a breeze for her. She now teaches high school and college math. (side note, college was a bit of a challenge for her because she rarely struggled doing homework before, so it was new to her to find herself struggling at times)
My third is the most self motivated out of all of them. She has always been somewhat of a perfectionist, so once she found her way to do homework she got it down to a science. I haven't even asked if she had homework since probably 2nd grade. She has asked for help on rare occasions, but it's usually where to find certain information. She is THE academic of the 4 and also straight A's-high A's. She is a senior this year and will be a National Merit Finalist....amazing accomplishment.
My 4th is my only boy. He is also very self motivated, but in a different way. He learns for a reason, not just because it's what is expected of him. He wanted to play Roller Coaster Tycoon at age 3 but needed to read to do so, so he learned. His IQ is higher than any of them but of course he is the one that is the most disorganized. So at age 12, 7th grade, I am still pushing him into better organizational skills. lol His academics....nothing needed, pretty much ever. Straight A's.
They all knew that I would never ever do their work for them. They also understood that a failing grade here or there might be a consequence of their not doing their work, however I would not let them fail a class. Didn't have to worry about that as it turns out. lol
If you don't draw a line at some point and make them responsible for their own grades, what happens when they go to college?
The reason middle school is the best age to do this, is because those grades don't count for college. Now you are going to either let him sink or swim when it "counts".
I have taught hundreds of students over the last 10 years, and due to that relatively small number I keep in touch with them to a much larger degree than most teachers. The ones who had helicopter parents disproportionately had major academic issues in college, including failing out, switching to "easier" programs, and so on. Now correlation is not causation and all of that, but aren't the younger grades time to "practice" being responsible and learning the consequences for not being responsible in a safer way then say high school or college?
Working in higher ed, FERPA makes my job a whole lot easier.
It used to surprise me to get a call from a parent asking (or arguing) about a student's grade. Now, it comes from parents of students in grad school, most of whom (in our case) are working full time in their field while working on their master's part time. I always wonder if their bosses get calls as well.
Working in higher ed, FERPA makes my job a whole lot easier.
It used to surprise me to get a call from a parent asking (or arguing) about a student's grade. Now, it comes from parents of students in grad school, most of whom (in our case) are working full time in their field while working on their master's part time. I always wonder if their bosses get calls as well.
Had one intern one year when I worked in tech and yes, his mother called every week.
The intern was working under me and his mother was able to get to my manager but not to me thankfully.
And what would I have told his mother ?
I spent more time telling him to get off Facebook and his phone then I did explaining work he was supposed to be doing.
Told my manger that maybe "Mom" should come in and do the work.
And that was the last year I volunteered to manage interns.
Why? I'm here to teach them how to study, to help them study, to make sure they are doing what they need to do to be successful in school and beyond. No one else is going to teach them that - not every kid is born with the innate skill set or drive to do so on their own. "Time management" speeches go in one ear and right out the other more often than they don't… you have to set an example at home.
It didn't mean that I DO their homework for them - not even close. I don't know where that idea came from. I will help them study if they ask me to quiz them on their flashcards (that they made up themselves), study guide, etc. They both know to do their homework. They've both seen their grades drop when they haven't.
If I see that someone has, lets say, a test and a paper due on Monday? There is no "sleepover at Sam's" on Saturday night, no going over to someone's house on Sunday, nada. Mostly for my 8th grader b/c my 11th grader "gets it", but I still KNOW what he has coming up. School comes first. Not sports, not friends, not "fun time". You get that if your grades are where they should be. I have always told them that they have one job and one job to do well: school, and they don't have to like it, they just have to do it.
My 8th grader has always been a challenge. He's already fallen flat on his face and I do blame myself to a point because I was busy with an infant during his early grade school years where I wasn't busy with an infant during my HS'ers early grade school years. Those were the same years when I had the time to and helped my now HS'er find the best way for him to study and made sure that he was using those tools.
I will ask BOTH of them if they have studied for such-and-such a test and what their grade was a few days after the quiz/test was taken (not all teachers put grades in to the system).
If I see a bad grade, then something needs to change until I see improvement. That usually means that all privileges are lost until that happens.
That's where I was coming from when I said "I'm going to be on their rear-ends".
Last edited by Informed Info; 11-02-2015 at 08:48 PM..
My kids haven't reached the age yet where I'd let them completely sink or swim. But, my 5th grader does take total responsibility for her homework and studying. She's just a good, easy kid that way. I never have to nag her to do anything, she just does it. I do know that she procrastinates a little bit, and that's worrisome as I did too and it eventually caught up to me in college, but as of now, she's making all the deadlines and getting perfect grades so can't complain.
My 3rd grader needs a lot more support, though. I'm hoping for a gradual tapering of my having to check everything and manage as much as I do. I don't think I'd let her fail a class in middle school, though. One test, maybe, to see if it would shock her into working harder, but not the whole class.
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