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So it looks like I'll be buying even more math curriculum for Christmas. She does also take piano lessons, tumbling, jazz dance, harp lessons, kiddie cheerleading, kiddie flag team, and Lego club. The only thing I "make" her do is piano, the rest she asked to do herself. She is my crazy mathy overachieving 6 year old.
Holly smoke. I sincerely wonder when you and the child have time for all this. You must be the greatest time managers in the world. :-) Granted...if admissions into elite colleges are related to how many different extra-curriculars a child had, then I can see how caring parents would put children into just about everything. Can't argue with that.
I, personally, plan on having the children take college admission exams in a country that doesn't emphasize extra-curriculars as an important criterion for entry. Both myself and my children would commit collective suicide on a schedule like the one described above.
In fact, in some of the overseas admission guidelines I read, there are direct appeals to the applicant to NOT play up extra-curriculars as this is NOT what the college is interested in.
I do believe that college admissions practices that encourage parents to place children in so many extra-curriculars largely benefit the businesses offering those activities, without resulting into the proverbial "well-rounded" youth schools and employers are supposedly coveting.
It is also because it shapes future adults who are used to the frantic schedules of efficiency-oriented business environments where quantity reigns over quality and where every single minute must be filled with something scheduled, planned, "productive", organized and goal-oriented - that will ultimately bring more money - whether the product is crap or not.
My philosophy on education is to address enough employer-friendly aspects so the child can compete in the labor market (having been born unlucky enough to depend on a "job creator" for survival); yet to allow enough time for in-depth study so he can discover the rewards of education for its own sake.
The type of education that will go NOT into filling employer's pockets but into giving him the wisdom to enjoy a better quality of life, overall.
The latter involves enough time to dedicate to reading for pleasure, studying a certain field in-depth, and also some unstructured time and space to hear themselves think and wonder.
Yes, it's a luxury - but I do want my children to have this luxury instead of yet another rush to what I have seen to be mainly superficial and meaningless extra-curricular activities; that applies even when the kids ask to sign up for so many themselves because so goes the fashion among peers.
At this age, I remain the judge of how their time would be best spent. And between a flimsy-whimsy paid class of something and just having the time to finish that great book at home, in bed - I would often pick the latter.
Piano? Yeah. Don't we all "make them"...which makes me wonder...what will be the real value of it, considering most of our kids don't burn to strike those keys in passion, Beethoven style.
They do it because we want them to, because we think it will give them some illusion of pedigree, or develop their minds just one step closer towards that fat paycheck... or because we think colleges will applaud it.
But like with anything else, massification of any product or behavior results in a loss of value for said product or behavior.
So yeah...my kids too do the "done" thing...take piano...Lord Forbid should we miss PI-A-NO :-)...but I often wonder whether the money would be better spent on a down payment for their first house.
Cultural capital is great but good ol' Marxist capital is SWEEET.
Piano? Yeah. Don't we all "make them"...which makes me wonder...what will be the real value of it, considering most of our kids don't burn to strike those keys in passion, Beethoven style.
They do it because we want them to, because we think it will give them some illusion of pedigree, or develop their minds just one step closer towards that fat paycheck... or because we think colleges will applaud it.
Eh, I require piano at an early age because studies show that it helps to wire up the brain better, especially between the two hemispheres. After that window has passed (around age 8 or so), I don't require it anymore. I'm not interested in Beethoven unless THEY are interested in Beethoven. But I do consider it my responsibility to give them the advantage of healthier brains if I'm able to. It's like making them eat their veggies. Early piano is brain veggies.
Eh, I require piano at an early age because studies show that it helps to wire up the brain better, especially between the two hemispheres. After that window has passed (around age 8 or so), I don't require it anymore. I'm not interested in Beethoven unless THEY are interested in Beethoven. But I do consider it my responsibility to give them the advantage of healthier brains if I'm able to. It's like making them eat their veggies. Early piano is brain veggies.
Well...or so a few funky studies say.
Solid evidence that taking piano lessons for a few years early on helps the child do better in the long run, above and beyond major factors such as parents' socio-economic background (including their education and the environments they will place the child in, etc.) is virtually non-existent.
I have a hunch (no, not a study) that if public money somehow placed ghetto kids in a few years of piano lessons early on, with everything else staying the same, their life trajectories would still be the same.
Reasons behind my children taking piano include a love of classical music that was cultivated in my family. Or so I tell myself to maximize self-respect.
Then I realize I could have easily addressed this with mere music appreciation (cheaper too). So reasons must also include objectively obnoxious yet biologically normal parental desire to provide children with a competitive edge, given the child will be forced to live in economically and socially crazy-competitive environments.
I do not pretend to know for sure how the piano will help the child. You say it does by "wiring the brain better". OK.
What I am getting to is that regardless of what the piano is supposed to do, both you and I and everyone and their brother who put kids in piano lessons and similarly "elevating" activities, are still ultimately driven by the desire to give their kid a competitive edge.
Each of us will deny this and appeal instead to nobler motives - but we know better.
Whether that's with perfectly wired brain hemispheres or with the "cache" that piano-playing is supposed to reflect...we are all the same anxious parents trying to help our clearly vulnerable children in a world of frantic economic and social climbing.
The question is what happens to competitive edges when everyone (and their brother) has one?
They are no longer edges!
All I can say is good luck to us pumping the kids and Lord have mercy on their souls when they will discover that everyone was pumped up by suddenly enlightened parents.
What I am getting to is that regardless of what the piano is supposed to do, both you and I and everyone and their brother who put kids in piano lessons and similarly "elevating" activities, are still ultimately driven by the desire to give their kid a competitive edge.
Each of us will deny this and appeal instead to nobler motives - but we know better.
Oh I will fully and whole heartedly admit that since having a child, 99% of the things I do is driven by the desire to give my kids a competitive advantage in life. Of course. I would consider myself a horrible parent if that wasn't my goal. I mean, that's why you take prenatal vitamins, that's why you don't drink when pregnant, that's why you don't give your infant juice and soda, etc etc. Right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa
Whether that's with perfectly wired brain hemispheres or with the "cache" that piano-playing is supposed to reflect...we are all the same anxious parents trying to help our clearly vulnerable children in a world of frantic economic and social climbing.
The question is what happens to competitive edges when everyone (and their brother) has one?
They are no longer edges!
All I can say is good luck to us pumping the kids and Lord have mercy on their souls when they will discover that everyone was pumped up by suddenly enlightened parents.
You do have a point. We should totally stop posting about our methods in a public forum.
Ah, I should have known! One child, six years old, yet you're telling the rest of us what to do. (Lurkers:
see thread about bored kindergartner as well.)
It's funny, both funny-ha-ha and funny-ironic, but not funny-peculiar that parents of young kids, especially parents of just one think they have the holy grail. I should probably stop here.
Folks, this poster wrote a long screed about what I should have done differently. I should have moved into a different district, even though I a)don't really believe in most of this good district/bad district stuff, and b) I live in objectively one of the best districts in Colorado. (I probably should have moved to a different state in that case!) I should have investigated Catholic schools, even though DH nor I are Catholic. I should say at this point that a friend took her kids out of Catholic school because they were behind the public schools in. . .MATH! There is much, much more. I'm on my kindle and it's hard for me to jump back and forth. Go take a look!
Syracuse, I appreciate your input. I'd like to reassure you that the college application process is not as extra-curricular oriented as you may have heard. I could go on, but it's hard typing on this kindle.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 11-06-2015 at 04:24 PM..
Reason: add a parenthese
Ah, I should have known! One child, six years old, yet you're telling the rest of us what to do. (Lurkers:
see thread about bored kindergartner as well.)
It's funny, both funny-ha-ha and funny-ironic, but not funny-peculiar that parents of young kids, especially parents of just one think they have the holy grail. I should probably stop here.
Folks, this poster wrote a long screed about what I should have done differently. I should have moved into a different district, even though I a)don't really believe in most of this good district/bad district stuff, and b) I live in objectively one of the best districts in Colorado. (I probably should have moved to a different state in that case!) I should have investigated Catholic schools, even though DH nor I are Catholic. I should say at this point that a friend took her kids out of Catholic school because they were behind the public schools in. . .MATH! There is much, much more. I'm on my kindle and it's hard for me to jump back and forth. Go take a look!
Syracuse, I appreciate your input. I'd like to reassure you that the college application process is not as extra-curricular oriented as you may have heard. I could go on, but it's hard typing on this kindle.
I didnt see the thread, but it does surprise me how people who are parenting small children seem to know exactly how things are going to go right through college and beyond. They should be so lucky....
There is a distinct and meaningful difference between the ideology of the so called "tigermoms" vs "helicopters" that is being lost in all the talk about "teams" and "identities". Parents who emphasize work ethic, internal motivation, and personal responsibility in their children are working within a knowledge that there is an immutable line. That line is college. Parents who fix "harmful and meaningless" zeros for their children, are not raising children who will know that they are the only ones in control of their grades in college. That is a terrible place to learn that lesson.
I can also state from personal experience, that many helicoptered kids will shine like a new penny in high school. Some of them will do fine in college, since they didn't really need to be hovered over any way, and another substantial subset will flunk out within a year, some earlier. I see it every year.
I also couldn't agree more about the "good district/bad district" myth for the vast majority of schools and I am endlessly shocked by how few parents understand that colleges are looking for passion, commitment and REAL achievement with an "extracurricular" that actually means something to the student. rather than the imaginary "well rounded" who joins every club ever posted.
I am the eldest of immigrant Chinese parents. As such, going to American school in the 60s, I was on my own. Learning to read, write, and speaking English was a difficult task. It was my responsibility to teach my 4 younger siblings.
Watching the initial struggles of our parents, we all knew that we had to succeed with our education. My proudest moment was when I was able to announce to my parents that I had been accepted to Cal Berkeley. The next 3 siblings also followed me.
My 2 children are also university graduates. However, we had spent a lot of time with them during their elementary school years. We never pushed them. We simply asked them how they wished to live in their adult years and into retirement, as my parents had told me.
Not a one fits all formula. However, it worked for us. America is truly the land of opportunity. It is referred to as the Golden Mountain.
I am the eldest of immigrant Chinese parents. As such, going to American school in the 60s, I was on my own. Learning to read, write, and speaking English was a difficult task. It was my responsibility to teach my 4 younger siblings.
Watching the initial struggles of our parents, we all knew that we had to succeed with our education. My proudest moment was when I was able to announce to my parents that I had been accepted to Cal Berkeley. The next 3 siblings also followed me.
My 2 children are also university graduates. However, we had spent a lot of time with them during their elementary school years. We never pushed them. We simply asked them how they wished to live in their adult years and into retirement, as my parents had told me.
Not a one fits all formula. However, it worked for us. America is truly the land of opportunity. It is referred to as the Golden Mountain.
You are right that asking children "how they wish to live in their adult years and retirement" would not work for everyone because it assumes unusually high levels of maturity on the part of the child and sometimes, some trauma too. I would venture to say it wouldn't work for MOST children - because most would simply shrug.
My parents did the same thing - and yes, it worked for me. It didn't work for my sister until she failed her admission exam at the university at the age of 18, got scared, and then finally took the question seriously and took off; and it never worked for my brother - to this day.
Coming from a traditional Eastern culture myself, I know that such places can produce quite a few docile, mature, old soul type of children, who will take parental advice very seriously at an early age. I was one of those - my siblings weren't.
MOST children are not mature beyond their years - least of all middle class western-raised kids whose familial, school, peer, and media environments encourage anything BUT early maturity.
You seemed to be and so are your kids - which is nice, but as you correctly pointed, not generalizable.
In my experience, the last thing most children care about is how they will live as adults or in retirement - especially if what they've always seen at home is relative economic plenty, all needs met, most wants met too (remember when they don't even know what to ask for Christmas because they already have just about everything?). If instability lurks, parents carefully hide it.
This type of small creature can hardly project any real anxieties on the future... with desolate images of shivering out in the cold in retirement. Their life is lived in the present, it is secure, and they just want to play. They can't even fathom what the heck the parent is babbling about.
I should know it because I sell them the "adulthood/retirement" line too...all the time...and sometimes I clearly detect that "mom-is-a-bit-koo-koo" look in their eyes. To be fair, my lines sells only adulthood-related horror stories because by the time I project all the way to retirement, their level of interest reaches an epic zero.
Conclusion: I need to stay on top of their a**es because I am the one capable of fathoming how one could easily end up shivering in retirement (and much earlier, mind you), whereas they aren't .
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