America's poor, mostly black/latino & the south need charter schools

[NyWriterdude]

Originally Posted by AMSS

WTH are you talking about? Inclusions laws and inabiltiy to suspend have been the work of legislators. School districts and teachers unions have nothing to do with it. That's crazy for you to believe that.

Oh but they do have something about it if they are just passively carrying out these laws passed by legislatures. In light of the charter school movement, it's up to school districts and teachers union to make their case on how they are hobbled by students with severe disciplinary problems and that they need the resources to solve this (counseling for kids, more social workers and alternate schools for those students who cannot behave for whatever reason).

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by nana053

The problem is the research does not support that charter schools in general do better than public schools.

Charter schools: Finding out the facts: At a glance

The research goes both ways. I tend to agree with the above. I'm no fan of charter schools in the abstract. On a personal level, however, I think being in a charter was a great help to a relative of mine whose home life is, to say the least, chaotic. At least there was some order in the school environment. (This kid is in regular high school now.) And I think that's the kind of stuff Oldhag1 is talking about.

[bg7]

Originally Posted by AMSS

WTH are you talking about? Inclusions laws and inabiltiy to suspend have been the work of legislators. School districts and teachers unions have nothing to do with it. That's crazy for you to believe that.

You have got to be kidding. The Teacher's unions through their lobbyists have for years, or rather for decades, set the education agenda rules in states like NY (may Sheldon Silver, the most powerful legislator in NY for 20 decades and the biggest benefiter of teachers union lobbying funds RIP). Its completely disingenuous to claim educators have had nothing to do with this when such rules got their support from venal politicians for the give and take purposes of passing very nice pensions and benefits presents for all!). Long before charters even came into existence. With the 10s of millions spent by Teacher's unions lobbying even before Charters existed, in any large form, way more appropriate "inclusion" rules and less damaging procedures to the 95% of minority kids who want an education, could easily have been implemented or pushed for - but no, there was no interest in it. No interest whatsoever.

Now suddenly the bitchin starts! Their lobbyists were unopposed basically for decades - but for that time it was all about the teacher's interests, not the kids. And that's understandable, teacher's unions stand up for teachers, as they should, but teacher's unions lobbying for decades set the agenda. And it was NOT aligned with the minority kids' agenda for getting the majority of themselves educated in NY that's for sure.

$65 Million spent in lobbying the NYS legislature by teacher's unions since 2000, yet no influence on the legislation passed.
I suppose if you tell a lie that is so preposterously big that people's processing faculties don't compute it, then you've got a chance the lie will go undetected.

[tnff]

Originally Posted by AMSS

WTH are you talking about? Inclusions laws and inabiltiy to suspend have been the work of legislators. School districts and teachers unions have nothing to do with it. That's crazy for you to believe that.

Of course they had something to do with it. They set the agenda for decades with no counterbalance. The whole charter school movement as well as home schooling is the natural reaction to the unfettered control educators have had over schools. I'm not saying I fully support charters and other alternatives, but educators have to be realistic about the role they playing in setting the stage and the role they could play in getting things back on track.

If the NEA came out with reasonable standards for teachers to meet, reasonable expectations for dealing with poor performers (again, note that I'm not saying most teachers are poor performers, just the few give everyone a bad name), and expectations for student behavior and performance, it would get support.

[Clevelander17]

Charter schools, in and of themselves, are not the solution to whatever supposedly ails public schools. Sorting students is the effect that is evident in these "studies." If we, as a country, have a discussion and decide that any wide-scale sorting policy is acceptable, then there's no reason why the public schools can't implement the system. Charter schools are an unnecessary go-between that mostly only exist to siphon money from education into the pockets of people looking to make a profit.