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Old 11-10-2015, 06:43 PM
 
5,472 posts, read 3,222,624 times
Reputation: 3935

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Improve Education Programming, Educational Cost and All the elements which impact your life and hinder your career.


Quote:
Use your power. The president has tried to open the door to tuition free state university, and community colleges, then show that you want it. Stand up, DEMAND, the politicians push to promote it. Or Vote them Out.
Today, young people showed their power to change things, in Missouri, that is symbolic of the power the young people have, especially when they hit the pocketbooks of the system.

All the time and money invested in education and many graduate with limited job opportunities, limited options to even purse their course of study in a viable job area.

It is the world which today's young people inherit, don't wait for someone to give it to you, use your power to demand changes in the system, demand changes in the educational system, and demand changes to the cost structure of education, you will find out how much power you have to change the economic dynamics of this nation.

THE POWER OF YOUNG PEOPLE IS TREMENDOUS. Share a link to your friends on social media, "get the word out" 'Get other young people to talking", you will quickly realize you are not as powerless as the system would like to make you think.

Please Take Time and Read the post discussing your power, its power you have but did not know you have and can use it to your advantage.

It is the young people who can return the institution of education back to respect "Ethics" as a foundational part of course programming.
It is Young People, who can change the program from "Greed Training", to one of respecting society, community, state and nation.

The numbers of young people who fill the campuses, must become aware of their power. Realize if your aims are structured and directed, you also have the power of alumni whom you can influence to support the change you know is necessary, if you expect to have a viable future.

Imagine how quick Universities would change and meet the needs of the Students, if their Sports Stadium went empty. That's a Power you have.

Imagine the power of community support you'd get from the local community, if you don't shop at their business until they support your stand and your voice for change. The community and the merchants will stand up with resources and voice to support your cause. This is the power the young people have.

Don't abuse it, don't push it for frivolous things, use it for constructive change. Imagine if ALL students register and Vote, just how much you can change, think how much you can push the system to again learn to respect education, realize how you can change the governance of states to stop de-funding education.

You as students can reverse the madness started by Ronald Reagan, when he took on a mission to De-Fund Education, then when he became President he went into over-drive to take away from education many funds from the federal and many states cut funding for education.

You can change that. Push for Re-Funding Our State Universities, expand the programming at the community colleges, and make credits transferable. You can make that happen. Push to give back credibility to Vocational and Technical Training Programs.

Last edited by Chance and Change; 11-10-2015 at 07:17 PM..
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Old 11-11-2015, 10:40 AM
 
2,826 posts, read 2,366,623 times
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It's not Reagan. It's the school system itself.

Let me explain supply and demand. We have a product. Let's say, a toaster. The toaster costs $0.50. It toasts crazy good bread. People start to buy it. Because demand is high, they can try to charge more when the next one comes out. Soon, toasters start being $5.00, then later you have $50 toasters. Everyone says, "Holy crap, I'm not paying that for a toaster! I don't care if it does toast all four sides, and I can cook an entire peanut butter and jelly sandwich" So they stop buying and the price goes down. Now, suppose this product is something like a car, where everyone "needs" it, and is willing to go into debt and take out a loan over it. The higher the loan you are willing to take, the higher the artificial demand is. Now, there is another end of the spectrum. Suppose everyone buys a car, and you run out of top quality materials to make one? You change the formula so that it's cheaper. Not cheaper in price, mind you, but cheaper in quality.

We watched Ivory Tower last night. Rather than spending money on hiring quality teachers, much of the "good" schools cater to the party crowd, and build stuff like swimming pools, and high-rise apartments. Enormous administration costs, mainly to pay the salaries of people who essentially do nothing. Rather than have the administrator, ummmm, I dunno, use that money to run the school, they pass all costs on to the students in the form of crushing debt.

We need to do job training starting at high school, so that even high school grads are employable. Next, we need to stuff our belief in the liberal arts system. Most people need internship apprenticeship in what they are interested in, or they need trade school. "When are we gonna use this stuff?" asks every student everywhere. Fact of the matter, if you have to ask that, you likely will not use it, because it's not relevant to your major. It doesn't matter if it's math (typically relevant only to algebra or geometry), technology (some stuff they prepare you for the future is either unheard of when you come out and they're still using the old stuff, or in some cases it becomes obsolete), or medicine (see technology). In short, alot of people are in college because they "should" be doing it, instead of focusing on the specific career they need to be in. Liberal arts should only be for the people prepared to go into politics, and it should be a very high quality sort of "master of all" education.
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Old 11-11-2015, 11:32 AM
 
5,472 posts, read 3,222,624 times
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Long Ago, people went to college/university for the sake of specializing in something, that was the whole point of having a Major and a Minor.
Today, our system has made it a criteria, as if having a degree is an answer all solution. where many many many people do not result to work in fields even remotely close to what their degree is. The HR now put "degree" on the criteria list, as a standard call. As someone from a job recruting program told me, "the degree represents that a person can choose a couse and stick with it", I disagreed, because many don't stick with it, and the degree becomes nothing more in some cases than a "get a job certificate".

I'm a strong advocate of vocational and technical skill training, and I certainly agree that people should have job ready skills when they graduate high school, or at least the level of proficieny training like the Military provides in their tech training programs.
We just go through the motions and by and through doing so, we've set up a class and cast system based on degree and what type and level of degree. IT does not even factor if a person is truly competent, it just matters that the student paid the institution and spent the time in grade to gain units to claim a degree. It's sad, how HR is often overly influenced by the University system. It's equally sad that the university system has done all it could to discredit community colleges and vocational and technical schools. When the University should be in support of the training and college courses, equally so as I said, the credits should be transferrable.

I'm not a fan of the motivations nor the actions of Ronald Reagan on various levels, as it damaged many young people; the worst is he followed it up with 'dumping people from mental institution and away from mental services onto the streets, with nothing and no means to get help or assistance. The size of Skid Row expanded to cover for certain more than 50 city block in places like Los Angeles. It is now so large until its difficult to police it.

The phrase "College Student" is today, so "Cliche", like its some play time-out period or something.
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Old 11-12-2015, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
10,061 posts, read 7,229,638 times
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You know what country had an obsession with STEM and vocational education?

You know what country also felt the liberal arts were mostly useless except to the extent they taught patriotic themes?

The Soviet Union.
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Old 11-12-2015, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,520,614 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
You know what country had an obsession with STEM and vocational education?

You know what country also felt the liberal arts were mostly useless except to the extent they taught patriotic themes?

The Soviet Union.
As they say: Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it.

The really sad truth is we have no shortage of STEM in this country. We just refuse to hire our own people. We'd rather bring in a 25 yo recent graduate from India than hire a 50 year old engineer who is looking for work. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'll believe there's a STEM shortage when a 50 year old engineer can find a job. EVERY engineer I know who was downsized out during the recession who was over 40 failed to find work in engineering. Some chose early retirement, some chose other professions and some are still looking for work 9 years later. I've given up looking for an engineering job. As poor as teaching pays it's a job and it's better than where some of my former coworkers are.

We worship STEM but not our STEM. We worship foreign born STEM and youth. Instead of seeing age as associated with experience and wisdom we see it as evidence of being used up and worthless. We think our own STEM graduates are stupid or something as we'd rather hire from pretty much any country but ours. In order to justify this they made up the STEM shortage. They've even extended it to teaching yet I've never been less than 1:12 applicants for a chemistry or physics position and I've been 1:150 for a math position!!! I think the government's strategy both in STEM and teaching is to glut the field so that companies/schools have their pick of the litter and who cares about the rest who end up unemployed. If they were any good they'd have found jobs, right? Never mind they're competing with dozens of individuals for every job out there and so many of them are filled abroad that there aren't many positions available.
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Old 11-12-2015, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Billings, MT
9,885 posts, read 10,967,002 times
Reputation: 14180
Just remember one very simple little concept:

TANSTAAFL!

THERE AIN'T NO SUCH THING AS A FREE LUNCH!

Whatever you demand from Congress, and/or whatever you vote for, YOU will have to pay for!
The Government has NO MONEY, except that which the taxpayers (YOU) give it!
The past administrations (including the CURRENT one) have saddled YOU with a National Debt that is now over 18.5 TRILLION dollars (U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time)! That is over 57K per taxpayer.
Be careful what you wish for, you just might actually GET IT, and then you will have to pay for it!
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Old 11-12-2015, 05:12 PM
Status: "Nothin' to lose" (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: Concord, CA
7,179 posts, read 9,306,900 times
Reputation: 25602
In 1967 the tuition for a full time engineering student at the University of Arizona was just $180 per year. At the University of California Berkeley, it was zero.

Back then, states supported eduction.
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Old 11-12-2015, 07:28 PM
 
3,278 posts, read 5,386,038 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
You know what country had an obsession with STEM and vocational education?

You know what country also felt the liberal arts were mostly useless except to the extent they taught patriotic themes?

The Soviet Union.
STEM was the only area in which the Soviet Union was a truly equal superpower.

Ever wonder how AMERICAN astronauts get to the ISS in 2015? Soyuz.

I am the polar opposite of a Communist/Soviet Supporter, but they did produce a lot of significant advances. One can criticize pretty much everything about the Soviet Union, but they got their STEM right.
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Old 11-13-2015, 12:43 AM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
10,061 posts, read 7,229,638 times
Reputation: 17146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandalorian View Post
STEM was the only area in which the Soviet Union was a truly equal superpower.

Ever wonder how AMERICAN astronauts get to the ISS in 2015? Soyuz.

I am the polar opposite of a Communist/Soviet Supporter, but they did produce a lot of significant advances. One can criticize pretty much everything about the Soviet Union, but they got their STEM right.
Sure, they got to space first and went farther into space than the U.S. did for years with a lot smaller budget and fewer resources. They are still the only ones to get a lander to the surface of Venus. Among other accomplishments.

But at what cost? What good did that do them in the long run? People, like countries, need to be well rounded to succeed. The arts, humanities and sciences are not at odds. They work in tandem. I don't get why people think it's a zero sum game between them

Apple would have never been Apple without a lib arts thought process. Who'd have thought that the color of a computing device's case mattered? But it was everything. Apple is just one example in one sector, but their example applies across the economy. What's under the hood, so to speak, is only part of what makes success. The presentation, the feel, matters a lot, and that takes creativity.
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Old 11-13-2015, 10:02 AM
 
12,833 posts, read 9,029,433 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
But at what cost? What good did that do them in the long run? People, like countries, need to be well rounded to succeed. The arts, humanities and sciences are not at odds. They work in tandem. I don't get why people think it's a zero sum game between them

Apple would have never been Apple without a lib arts thought process. Who'd have thought that the color of a computing device's case mattered? But it was everything. Apple is just one example in one sector, but their example applies across the economy. What's under the hood, so to speak, is only part of what makes success. The presentation, the feel, matters a lot, and that takes creativity.
I agree they are not at odds, but do wonder who so many seem to feel that STEM degrees have no LA components. The reality is most STEM degrees ARE the well rounded, broad based degree that has both science and humanities components. Most STEM programs have a much larger LA component than the other way around where LA degrees have few STEM components beyond general intro classes.
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