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Is common core math college ready? I doubt it. SAT math is a joke. Many high school kids in Hong Kong or Singapore can do well in that test.
From my experience with a teacher who taught common core methods in the late 80s...
When students from his classes took the AP Calc exam, we generally bombed it. Most passed the AB, no one passed the BC, and few got 5s on the AB exam.
And then we would all ace our college placement tests, almost universally placing directly into analysis. Most of his former students took, and breezed through, analysis despite mostly being non-STEM majors and few being math majors.
Since you are mentioning southeast asian students, one thing I always found bizarre is that the southeast asian students at my college almost never placed into non-honors analysis. They diverged into either mid-level calculus or honors analysis (basically analysis for math majors). During my time in analysis, not a single southeast asian student took the course (maybe because those who placed into it had already fulfilled their math gen ed and had no interest in being a math major if they did not place into honors analysis?) This was the early 90s, so obviously it does not necessarily reflect present day patterns.
I didn't say the concepts are bad. CC math standard is not good enough when compete with the high performing Asian countries.
That is laughable, very true. I am glad that I am not among them. I got my rigorous elementary math education in Hong Kong years ago. My son's math homework can't hold a candle to what I did then. Our standard is too low. By the end of 8th grade, American students could be 2 grades behind in math. I am helping my kids math every weekend and make sure they are up to the Asian level. Is common core math college ready? I doubt it. SAT math is a joke. Many high school kids in Hong Kong or Singapore can do well in that test.
The standard is too low, but the standard is not the problem. Common core is actually trying to *raise* the standard from what it was before.
The problem is the current prevailing attitude of parents towards their children's schoolwork and homework in the United States. In Asian countries, when children get out of school, they don't go home, they go to afterschool tutoring places that their parents pay for where they have additional teachers who spend additional time teaching things like math. They get tutored for a few hours, THEN go home where their parents make them do their homework, check it, and then make them keep fixing it until everything is right. These kids are twice as good at math because they put in twice the work, and are supported in doing so by their parents.
For example, you and I are both helping our kids outside of school to make sure their math is up to par with the global standard. Have you talked about what you are doing on weekends to other American non-Asian parents from your child's class? I have. They think I'm NUTS. They think that me spending 20-30 minutes a day teaching extra math to my child in a kind and supporting way afterschool is downright abusive. And that I shouldn't be teaching my child, that the school is the only one supposed to be teaching my child, and I should keep my nose out of it. And these are parents whose children go the best academically rated school in the entire northern half of my state. THAT is the problem with math in the US. Not common core.
Asian countries have tons and tons of after school tutoring centers. A documentary I watched on Singapore said that they have more after school tutoring centers than they do actual schools. Everyone goes. These centers provide enrichment to the standard curriculum, diving deeper and solidifying skills. Going above and beyond, pushing the limits of education, stretching the children's potential. Not sending your child to one of these when you have the ability to is considered abusive, because you are depriving your child of an opportunity. Here in the United States? There are two centers, Sylvan, and Kumon, and they are only marketed to kids who are "behind" or "need extra help". Who goes to these places? The few kids who are having trouble in school and whose parents actually want to try to help and haven't decided to just "blame the teacher" and drop the matter entirely. Oh, and of course the Asians go. Them too. All of the other after school centers, the public ones, are meant for the economically disadvantaged, and serve to keep kids out of trouble, and provide remedial instruction.
Common core in the US is trying to RAISE the standard. It is failing because parents don't want to raise the standard. They don't want to sit down with their kids and think through number theory and get out those blocks and make sure their kids understand. They want their kids to memorize a bunch of facts, nothing more, and leave them alone so they can go watch football or make something cute from pinterest. Teaching your child how to manipulate numbers, how to really understand how they work, beyond "carry the 1" and "this is how you make change", is crazy, and unnecessary. Unless your child is a rare bright self motivator and teaches him or her self. The reason why common core sets the standard so low, is because that's the highest it could go and still have even a remote chance of working here. The standard cannot be set higher, because the non-self-motivated (ie normal) kids cannot meet it, because the parents don't help them do more at home. The teachers in the schools are great, but they don't get nearly enough time to teach what they are supposed to teach. They need help from the parents. And they don't get it. Not here.
Just to clarify, Singapore Math is completely compatible with Common Core. Common Core is a set of standards, Singapore Math is a methodology. CC doesn't specify the methodology, which is determined locally and can be Singapore Math or whatever else is favored.
That is absolutely correct. The Singapore Math curriculum, "Primary Mathematics", was translated into English and fully adapted to common core. It IS a common core curriculum, used in some public schools (and some private). But it is a grade behind. As in, Singapore Math level 2 is used for common core math in 3rd grade in the US. And even a grade behind, it is still one of the most advanced common core math curriculums in the US.
From my experience with a teacher who taught common core methods in the late 80s...
When students from his classes took the AP Calc exam, we generally bombed it. Most passed the AB, no one passed the BC, and few got 5s on the AB exam.
And then we would all ace our college placement tests, almost universally placing directly into analysis. Most of his former students took, and breezed through, analysis despite mostly being non-STEM majors and few being math majors.
Since you are mentioning southeast asian students, one thing I always found bizarre is that the southeast asian students at my college almost never placed into non-honors analysis. They diverged into either mid-level calculus or honors analysis (basically analysis for math majors). During my time in analysis, not a single southeast asian student took the course (maybe because those who placed into it had already fulfilled their math gen ed and had no interest in being a math major if they did not place into honors analysis?) This was the early 90s, so obviously it does not necessarily reflect present day patterns.
I believe, in 1990's, the foreign students from Asia were the crème de la crème in their own countries. Can't say the same now. More and more Chinese kids attend US private schools with backpack of cash. This may be a new way to reduce trade deficit.
This thread is a very good example of why teaching is so frustrating. There are a couple of actual educators in this thread. The rest are just people with an opinion. And teachers are always in the position of being required to cater to each person's "opinion".
Sorry, I'm not following. What's wrong with the opinions on this problem since the variety of them show there is obviously an issue with the wording?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkbab5
Common core in the US is trying to RAISE the standard. It is failing because parents don't want to raise the standard. .
This is pure, unadulterated bull. CC isn't trying to raise any standard and it's not failing because parents (or basically anyone who disagrees with it) don't want to raise standards. It's failing because it's another failed concept in a long line of failed concepts that have gotten away from a system that actually worked. That's an old and tired tactic to accuse anyone who doesn't fall in line with the current thinking as being for low standards or against education or take your pick of ways to distract the discussion from legitimate concerns.
Geez Louise, look at your own response to pkbab5. I agree with your response to him/her, but look how aggravating it is to deal with this "opinion". Classroom teachers deal with this every day.
But "they" didn't write or suggest the questions at all. I'm not certain who writes unit tests in most districts (teachers? curriculum developers?), but it certainly is not the same people who wrote the CC standards.
And I remember teachers crossing out questions on tests looooonnnnnggg before CC when they realized they were poorly worded - or worse, teachers defending poorly worded questions even after students pointed out legitimate sources of confusion. It's a problem that schools should work to solve, but it isn't unique to CC or caused by CC.
Teachers are pulling questions from Core curriculum manuals. They don't understand it enough to create their own problems.
Teachers may have crossed out an occasional question here and there. But questions are now crossed out daily.
These sorts of problems are generally exercises in understanding number theory, not tricks to enable quick arithmetic. In the past, kids have been drilled in generally efficient algebra algorithms without ever learning what numbers are. Focusing on getting a quick answer without understanding the fundamentals is exactly the problem new math standards are trying to solve.
Poorly-worded problems are, of course, a separate issue.
But math, especially for the younger grades, needs to rely on rote memorization. The CC has done away with it, bottom line. Most children are no longer being instructed basic math facts (times tables, etc).
The standard is too low, but the standard is not the problem. Common core is actually trying to *raise* the standard from what it was before.
The problem is the current prevailing attitude of parents towards their children's schoolwork and homework in the United States. In Asian countries, when children get out of school, they don't go home, they go to afterschool tutoring places that their parents pay for where they have additional teachers who spend additional time teaching things like math. They get tutored for a few hours, THEN go home where their parents make them do their homework, check it, and then make them keep fixing it until everything is right. These kids are twice as good at math because they put in twice the work, and are supported in doing so by their parents.
For example, you and I are both helping our kids outside of school to make sure their math is up to par with the global standard. Have you talked about what you are doing on weekends to other American non-Asian parents from your child's class? I have. They think I'm NUTS. They think that me spending 20-30 minutes a day teaching extra math to my child in a kind and supporting way afterschool is downright abusive. And that I shouldn't be teaching my child, that the school is the only one supposed to be teaching my child, and I should keep my nose out of it. And these are parents whose children go the best academically rated school in the entire northern half of my state. THAT is the problem with math in the US. Not common core.
Asian countries have tons and tons of after school tutoring centers. A documentary I watched on Singapore said that they have more after school tutoring centers than they do actual schools. Everyone goes. These centers provide enrichment to the standard curriculum, diving deeper and solidifying skills. Going above and beyond, pushing the limits of education, stretching the children's potential. Not sending your child to one of these when you have the ability to is considered abusive, because you are depriving your child of an opportunity. Here in the United States? There are two centers, Sylvan, and Kumon, and they are only marketed to kids who are "behind" or "need extra help". Who goes to these places? The few kids who are having trouble in school and whose parents actually want to try to help and haven't decided to just "blame the teacher" and drop the matter entirely. Oh, and of course the Asians go. Them too. All of the other after school centers, the public ones, are meant for the economically disadvantaged, and serve to keep kids out of trouble, and provide remedial instruction.
Common core in the US is trying to RAISE the standard. It is failing because parents don't want to raise the standard. They don't want to sit down with their kids and think through number theory and get out those blocks and make sure their kids understand. They want their kids to memorize a bunch of facts, nothing more, and leave them alone so they can go watch football or make something cute from pinterest. Teaching your child how to manipulate numbers, how to really understand how they work, beyond "carry the 1" and "this is how you make change", is crazy, and unnecessary. Unless your child is a rare bright self motivator and teaches him or her self. The reason why common core sets the standard so low, is because that's the highest it could go and still have even a remote chance of working here. The standard cannot be set higher, because the non-self-motivated (ie normal) kids cannot meet it, because the parents don't help them do more at home. The teachers in the schools are great, but they don't get nearly enough time to teach what they are supposed to teach. They need help from the parents. And they don't get it. Not here.
How can the parents help them with CC math if they don't understand it? The teachers are barely scraping by. You need to remember, teachers were not instructed in this curriculum over the course of several years, or at the very least ONE year before instructing their students. They were handed a new curriculum, and were told, "Good luck!". Most teachers were pulled out of class during the child's school day (where a sub came in and didn't know wth was happening and the kids were lost) and were given crash courses in it. So, getting back to the parents...if the administrations/educators cannot figure out how to instruct it (because it's not a set in stone type of method), how do parents help?
And, again, I'll go back to my question:
If we are trying to raise standards to compete with always #1 in education Finland, why didn't we copy the Finnish model?
Sorry, I'm not following. What's wrong with the opinions on this problem since the variety of them show there is obviously an issue with the wording?
This is pure, unadulterated bull. CC isn't trying to raise any standard and it's not failing because parents (or basically anyone who disagrees with it) don't want to raise standards. It's failing because it's another failed concept in a long line of failed concepts that have gotten away from a system that actually worked. That's an old and tired tactic to accuse anyone who doesn't fall in line with the current thinking as being for low standards or against education or take your pick of ways to distract the discussion from legitimate concerns.
Apparently, if a child isn't mastering this method, their parent is lazy and watching a football game.
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