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We already have for-profit schools and they're garbage. They exist mostly to steal people's government benefits like Pell grants and GI bill money. We already have charter schools that have varying degrees of success.
We also have have private, not-for-profit schools (which does not necessarily mean they are not about making money). They compete on quality and the outcomes of their graduates. They also cost many thousands per year and only well-off people can afford them. The same actually applies to charters as well.
If we went all private for education the end result would be that a significant percentage of the population would just not get educated, or only to a very minimal degree what their parents could afford.
My property and state income taxes total out around $6000 per year and maybe half that at best goes toward education. Even saving on the taxes, there is no way $3K a year is going to get my kid into a decent private school. The public schools that operate lean require around $7500 per year per student, so I'd need that much just to break even.
You are making a mistake by equating what we have today with what would exist if ALL schooling was private. The economies of scale available to the public sector, which are poorly utilized, would be available to the prvate sector, where such advantages are fully taken advantage of in the pursuit of innovation and excellence that leads to big profits.
The semi-private garbage schools we have today would pale in comparison to the quality of a fully profit-driven system.
And by the way, if you brought life into the world that you cannot afford to educate, that is your choice and your problem. Why do you think you should victimize and enslave others because you have kids you cannot afford?
With the quality, mindset, and collectivist indoctrination of today's public schools and public school culture, today's young people should not bring life into the world unless they can afford to educate it privately.
If all schooling was private, it would be inexpensive and would blow the doors off the putrescent system we are victimized by nowadays.
Nah, that's just the easy way to get a huge uneducated underclass. Competition in education is incredibly stupid, you want cooperation to share knowledge and methods that work to get decent education to all rather than decent education to just some. Having a large proportion of the population uneducated is not good for the country, for safety, for the economy.
Utter nonsense. Education is a service, nothing more. And if we had a for-profit private model that replaced the crap we have now, the quality and breadth of education would be 50 times better. We see that the quality of public services utterly sucks in every other venue. Education is no different. And the private sector, with lots of competition for parental dollars, would be a much higher quality affair. And parents would have more control of WHAT is being taught, since they are directly paying for it. And the collectivist-leftist indoctrination that is part of the public school milieu would be gone baby gone.
Utter nonsense. Education is a service, nothing more. And if we had a for-profit private model that replaced the crap we have now, the quality and breadth of education would be 50 times better. We see that the quality of public services utterly sucks in every other venue. Education is no different. And the private sector, with lots of competition for parental dollars, would be a much higher quality affair. And parents would have more control of WHAT is being taught, since they are directly paying for it. And the collectivist-leftist indoctrination that is part of the public school milieu would be gone baby gone.
Education is a public necessity. And we certainly don't want parents deciding what is taught, that's how you get kids being taught absolute crap like abstinence-only sex ed and creationism.
Education is a public necessity. And we certainly don't want parents deciding what is taught, that's how you get kids being taught absolute crap like abstinence-only sex ed and creationism.
Education is NOT a public necessity. There are no public necessities other than defense from invaders. Everything else is a private activity. And how dare you presume to tell others what they should teach their kids. See how you immediately fell into tyranny and control of others? And THAT is why we need private everything, including education. Education is a service, and should be provided by private business using the principles of profit and competition to foster excellence and innovation.
Education is NOT a public necessity. There are no public necessities other than defense from invaders. Everything else is a private activity. And how dare you presume to tell others what they should teach their kids. See how you immediately fell into tyranny and control of others? And THAT is why we need private everything, including education. Education is a service, and should be provided by private business using the principles of profit and competition to foster excellence and innovation.
Do you really want to live in a country where the poor are literally uneducated and a good proportion of the rest are educated in complete nonsense? Does that sound like a society that works well?
You are making a mistake by equating what we have today with what would exist if ALL schooling was private. The economies of scale available to the public sector, which are poorly utilized, would be available to the prvate sector, where such advantages are fully taken advantage of in the pursuit of innovation and excellence that leads to big profits.
The semi-private garbage schools we have today would pale in comparison to the quality of a fully profit-driven system.
And by the way, if you brought life into the world that you cannot afford to educate, that is your choice and your problem. Why do you think you should victimize and enslave others because you have kids you cannot afford?
With the quality, mindset, and collectivist indoctrination of today's public schools and public school culture, today's young people should not bring life into the world unless they can afford to educate it privately.
If all schooling was private, it would be inexpensive and would blow the doors off the putrescent system we are victimized by nowadays.
I could take every post you make right out of a libertarian tract.
You hypothesize about what could exist. I submit its nothing other than a rose-colored prediction that assumes the best. You can bleat until kingdom come parrot phrases like "competition is always better" and "free market". The problem is that isn't always true.
Here's some reality for you: A few years ago here in Utah--a very conservative state--the state legislature enacted a general voucher law. What was the public reaction to it? We didn't like it. The vast majority of parents here are more than satisfied with the public schools that their children attended. We realized the law would inevitably result in the taking of scarce resources from our public schools. We got signatures on a referendum petition. We held an election. By about a 70% vote we repealed the legislature's general voucher law.
That shows you the popularity, or lack thereof, of the libertarian approach to education.
Ultimately, what these plans come down to are great schools for wealthy kids, average schools for middle income kids, and bad schools for poor kids. There are bad schools in some places in this country. However, much of it has to do with funding inequities and social problems that are much bigger than public education. That's reality hitting you in the face.
Ultimately, if Americans want better schools they have to be willing to confront social problems like single parenting, crime, blighted neighborhoods, unemployed parents, alcohol, and drugs. Teachers are only a small part of it. That's a huge challenge and it won't happen overnight. That is the real way to fix bad schools though.
Last edited by markg91359; 01-04-2016 at 08:25 AM..
Do you really want to live in a country where the poor are literally uneducated and a good proportion of the rest are educated in complete nonsense? Does that sound like a society that works well?
Yes. I want to live in a country where people have kids only when they can afford to care for them. With their own money. And educate them. With their own money, time, and attention. The job is too important to be left to the indoctrination cesspool we now call "public education". Parents should be in control of what is learned, when it is learned, and why it is learned. Today's so-called high school graduates are bumbling idiots who don't know how to balance a checking account or explain a credit score or express a philosophical sentiment, but can play Facebook games and tell you about idiotic pop culture, global warming and income inequality and how it is impossible for them to get a job or afford college. Disgracia!
I want Capitalist, private, for-profit, businesses to offer education to our kids. Education that is selected by and approved by and designed by parents and educators working together PRIVATELY. Public education is a day camp and a place to dump kids, not a place to learn anything. It's also a place where the kids are left to form mobs and cliques, it's a social garbage dump.
You get what you pay for, and public education, like all public services, is inadequate and mediocre. What SHOULD be coming out of high school is informed and sophisticated thinkers who can solve problems and take positions based on reason and logic. We don't see any of that at a typical high school graduation. We see parrots who regurgitate stuff.
No, we need to take this back from the public domain. It needs to be private, it needs to be subject to competition, it needs to generate handsome profits for those who undertake it, it needs to be deadly serious.
We see what is coming out of public schools. It's mostly tragic with a few shining exceptions. It's disgusting and needs to be changed. And the best way to change it is to make it ACCOUNTABLE. And the best way to do that is to make it private where we get to control it, make demands of it, see results, and FIRE TEACHERS who are incompetent and DO NOT DELIVER THE GOODS.
If I were a 20 year old and contemplating becoming a parent, I'd sooner lobotomize my kid rather than send him or her to public school. It would be cheaper, quicker, and achieve basically the same result.
You do realise that people aren't going to stop having children just because they can't afford to educate them, right? People still have children when they can't afford to feed them, why would they stop just because they can't afford school?
Why would you want to try a method that is untried and therefore unproven, and also logically quite absurd when you can try methods that are already tried and tested?
Yes. I want to live in a country where people have kids only when they can afford to care for them. With their own money. And educate them. With their own money, time, and attention. The job is too important to be left to the indoctrination cesspool we now call "public education". Parents should be in control of what is learned, when it is learned, and why it is learned. Today's so-called high school graduates are bumbling idiots who don't know how to balance a checking account or explain a credit score or express a philosophical sentiment, but can play Facebook games and tell you about idiotic pop culture, global warming and income inequality and how it is impossible for them to get a job or afford college. Disgracia!
I want Capitalist, private, for-profit, businesses to offer education to our kids. Education that is selected by and approved by and designed by parents and educators working together PRIVATELY. Public education is a day camp and a place to dump kids, not a place to learn anything. It's also a place where the kids are left to form mobs and cliques, it's a social garbage dump.
You get what you pay for, and public education, like all public services, is inadequate and mediocre. What SHOULD be coming out of high school is informed and sophisticated thinkers who can solve problems and take positions based on reason and logic. We don't see any of that at a typical high school graduation. We see parrots who regurgitate stuff.
No, we need to take this back from the public domain. It needs to be private, it needs to be subject to competition, it needs to generate handsome profits for those who undertake it, it needs to be deadly serious.
We see what is coming out of public schools. It's mostly tragic with a few shining exceptions. It's disgusting and needs to be changed. And the best way to change it is to make it ACCOUNTABLE. And the best way to do that is to make it private where we get to control it, make demands of it, see results, and FIRE TEACHERS who are incompetent and DO NOT DELIVER THE GOODS.
If I were a 20 year old and contemplating becoming a parent, I'd sooner lobotomize my kid rather than send him or her to public school. It would be cheaper, quicker, and achieve basically the same result.
Your whole screed about public schools contains much misinformation; I don't even know where to start. If you think there aren't "mobs and cliques" in private schools, you have another think coming! I've known parents to take their kids out of public school to "straighten them out", and the kids found friends in the new private school just like the ones they were taken out of PS to get away from, including at religious schools. Private schools are also known to put up with a lot to keep the tuition flowing, especially from kids of big donors. Why should a school generate profits? The for-profit higher ed schools have turned out to be way less than they promised to be. What is your experience with the public schools that you are so hostile to them?
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 01-04-2016 at 11:30 AM..
Yes. I want to live in a country where people have kids only when they can afford to care for them. With their own money. And educate them. With their own money, time, and attention. The job is too important to be left to the indoctrination cesspool we now call "public education". Parents should be in control of what is learned, when it is learned, and why it is learned. Today's so-called high school graduates are bumbling idiots who don't know how to balance a checking account or explain a credit score or express a philosophical sentiment, but can play Facebook games and tell you about idiotic pop culture, global warming and income inequality and how it is impossible for them to get a job or afford college. Disgracia!
I want Capitalist, private, for-profit, businesses to offer education to our kids. Education that is selected by and approved by and designed by parents and educators working together PRIVATELY. Public education is a day camp and a place to dump kids, not a place to learn anything. It's also a place where the kids are left to form mobs and cliques, it's a social garbage dump.
You get what you pay for, and public education, like all public services, is inadequate and mediocre. What SHOULD be coming out of high school is informed and sophisticated thinkers who can solve problems and take positions based on reason and logic. We don't see any of that at a typical high school graduation. We see parrots who regurgitate stuff.
No, we need to take this back from the public domain. It needs to be private, it needs to be subject to competition, it needs to generate handsome profits for those who undertake it, it needs to be deadly serious.
We see what is coming out of public schools. It's mostly tragic with a few shining exceptions. It's disgusting and needs to be changed. And the best way to change it is to make it ACCOUNTABLE. And the best way to do that is to make it private where we get to control it, make demands of it, see results, and FIRE TEACHERS who are incompetent and DO NOT DELIVER THE GOODS.
If I were a 20 year old and contemplating becoming a parent, I'd sooner lobotomize my kid rather than send him or her to public school. It would be cheaper, quicker, and achieve basically the same result.
There is already a system for that. Its called private school and in my area grades 9-12 cost $20k a year, per kid. This 20k a year provides no additional guarantee of getting into a top school than the local public schools do. This is demonstrated in the statistics the private schools are required to provide, and are usually on their website. There is a school near us called Bolles that is very well known and costs over 20k a year, 40k if the student boards there, out of something like 150 graduates only like 4 went on to an Ivy League University. FOUR. 80k for private high school education and only 4 went to top schools.
Private school is incredibly expensive because it is not subsidized. In your mecca of capitalist education not only would the wealthy be the only ones that could afford education but society as we know it would implode because the myriad of engineers, chemists, accountants, lawyers, journalists, artists, computer wizards etc that are produced yearly by public education would cease to do so. Go live in your Limbaugh mecca in some other third world Country, we Americans prefer to educate our fellow man.
Moreover Private schools are already allowed to exist, if they could do it better, cheaper, etc they would already be doing so. They cant and dont.
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