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Thought provoking articles about a very competitive school district. Even at my own kids' schools which are not as highly ranked, but good - I wonder how much is too much whether it would be legit work or busy work. Balance is so important for a kid and they need some down time.
White vs Asian, a race war of different kind. For now, Whites are in control, but Asians are the majority. Let's see how it pans out. One thing for sure, eliminating midterm and final is definitely a dumb down.
White vs Asian, a race war of different kind. For now, Whites are in control, but Asians are the majority. Let's see how it pans out. One thing for sure, eliminating midterm and final is definitely a dumb down.
ITA. Learning the material for one test is one thing. Retaining it long term is another. The very act of relearning what you forgot before the final for the final helps you retain what you learned longer.
Competitiveness in schools will not stop. It's being driven by parents who want bragging rights and scholarship money for their child.
ITA. Learning the material for one test is one thing. Retaining it long term is another. The very act of relearning what you forgot before the final for the final helps you retain what you learned longer.
Competitiveness in schools will not stop. It's being driven by parents who want bragging rights and scholarship money for their child.
Of course it won't stop, but that doesn't mean you should scar a high performing kid or leave out middle to lower performing kids. There's a problem with kids breaking down the way the article describes. I know I'm only going off a few people, but Asian girls in my school were basketcases if they got lower than perfect and neither they or the boys expanded their creativity.
Competitiveness in schools will not stop. It's being driven by parents who want bragging rights and scholarship money for their child.
This is really racist and horribly insulting. Asian parents do not push their children to work hard for bragging rights and scholarship money. Asian parents push their children to do well because they want their kids to grow up happy, being able to easily provide for a family, for their own children, to not have any hardships worse than being ashamed about a bad grade.
This is really racist and horribly insulting. Asian parents do not push their children to work hard for bragging rights and scholarship money. Asian parents push their children to do well because they want their kids to grow up happy, being able to easily provide for a family, for their own children, to not have any hardships worse than being ashamed about a bad grade.
Seriously? She wasn't saying that only Asian parents are competitive - had you taught, you'd know that. No one else wants their kids to have less hardships? Forget that the kids in this particular town are all pretty well off. Well, let's see if you scream at a kid for not being better than everyone else at a sporting event then you likely want bragging rights. How you go about your kids succeeding in school is important. Killing and drilling, shaming them for being human, and disregarding how their peers do things constantly isn't healthy.
And yes, there is a problem when a group of parents are spending money on tutoring, Kumon, etc. to advance their kids further beyond necessary and they want every other kid to follow suit even though they might not be able to afford tutoring or have the intellectual means to do so. Schools are about getting every kid to their potential, not just those going to college.
Seriously? She wasn't saying that only Asian parents are competitive - had you taught, you'd know that. No one else wants their kids to have less hardships? Forget that the kids in this particular town are all pretty well off. Well, let's see if you scream at a kid for not being better than everyone else at a sporting event then you likely want bragging rights. How you go about your kids succeeding in school is important. Killing and drilling, shaming them for being human, and disregarding how their peers do things constantly isn't healthy.
I'm sorry, I thought she was taking about this article in particular, where it talks about Asian parents being very academically competitive. If she was just talking about competitive parents in general, then it's not racist. But I still think it's not correct to generalize all, or even most, competitive parents as only doing it for bragging rights. Also, just so you know, screaming, killing and drilling, and shaming, is not the primary method for Asian academically competitive parents. It's the method used in the Tiger Mom book, but she is not "normal" in that regard. Most real-life Asian parents use love and warmth coupled with firm discipline and respect - no screaming or shaming involved.
Oh, and I have taught, only it was at the college level, so it's not quite the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS
And yes, there is a problem when a group of parents are spending money on tutoring, Kumon, etc. to advance their kids further beyond necessary and they want every other kid to follow suit even though they might not be able to afford tutoring or have the intellectual means to do so. Schools are about getting every kid to their potential, not just those going to college.
I have to disagree here. A group of parents spending money for tutoring, Kumon, etc. to advance their kids further is fantastic. The parents care about their children's education, go the extra mile to give their children anything they can, and their children are better off in the long run. When you say "further beyond necessary" what you really mean is "further beyond kids who's parents don't do that". In other words, you want parents to stop giving their kids extra competitive advantages because the other kids don't get that advantages. I'm sorry, but I disagree with that philosophy. Every parent should do the best for their own kids, regardless of other kids. I mean, obviously not hurting other kids or whatever, but you don't deny your kids an advantage just because another kid doesn't get them.
Yes, schools are about getting every kid to their potential, but that means you try to raise the standards for ALL the kids, not just the ones at the bottom. And you don't hold down the top so that the middle can compete. That's ridiculous.
I'm sorry, I thought she was taking about this article in particular, where it talks about Asian parents being very academically competitive. If she was just talking about competitive parents in general, then it's not racist. But I still think it's not correct to generalize all, or even most, competitive parents as only doing it for bragging rights. Also, just so you know, screaming, killing and drilling, and shaming, is not the primary method for Asian academically competitive parents. It's the method used in the Tiger Mom book, but she is not "normal" in that regard. Most real-life Asian parents use love and warmth coupled with firm discipline and respect - no screaming or shaming involved.
Oh, and I have taught, only it was at the college level, so it's not quite the same.
I have to disagree here. A group of parents spending money for tutoring, Kumon, etc. to advance their kids further is fantastic. The parents care about their children's education, go the extra mile to give their children anything they can, and their children are better off in the long run. When you say "further beyond necessary" what you really mean is "further beyond kids who's parents don't do that". In other words, you want parents to stop giving their kids extra competitive advantages because the other kids don't get that advantages. I'm sorry, but I disagree with that philosophy. Every parent should do the best for their own kids, regardless of other kids. I mean, obviously not hurting other kids or whatever, but you don't deny your kids an advantage just because another kid doesn't get them.
Yes, schools are about getting every kid to their potential, but that means you try to raise the standards for ALL the kids, not just the ones at the bottom. And you don't hold down the top so that the middle can compete. That's ridiculous.
You raise standards for everyone. But when you have that many kids being referred for mental health services something is wrong. In NYC are some of the finest specialty magnets where wealthy parents hire tutors to prepare them for the entrance exam to be taken in eighth grade. A few years ago, the Times did an article on tutors who stopped providing the service because they felt they were setting up an unfair system that poor kids didn't have access to.
I don't know what the answer is because obviously you want your kid get better at what they do, but when you keep moving what defines the bottom and expect other kids to go the same path, there's a problem. It's like when the first wave of daycare parents were upset that kindergarten taught letters because their kids already knew them or the parent who spends tons of money on premier level soccer than gets upset that the high school team isn't as competitive as the premier league. I'm all for raising the bar, but when kids get shut out - something needs to be looked at.
I have experience with Kumon and don't think it's the way schools should do things. Very little creative thought comes out of that sort of drilling and plenty of instances have shown that Asian American kids trained in this method have problems thinking beyond that rationale.
You raise standards for everyone. But when you have that many kids being referred for mental health services something is wrong.
This, yes. Some of the reforms mentioned in the article may help this, but most I don't think would have any impact on this. Moving math team from 4th grade to 6th grade? I don't see that helping. Limiting summer school courses? No, that's hurting. Ending mid terms and finals? No, that's also hurting. No homework nights and opening music programs to include both beginner and advanced musicians are a good idea though.
When doing reforms like this, you want to focus on giving the bottom an opportunity to move up, not holding down the top. Enrich, don't limit. Don't move math team, instead, expand the math team and have a competitive section and a non-competitive section, or just have more than one team so more kids can get in. Instead of limiting summer school courses, start a scholarship fund so more kids can go. Ending mid terms and finals? No, but maybe do something like pair kids up, a kid who needs help with a kid who is good with the material, and assign them to study together during class time before the test. Require all kids in an advanced class to take a class on mental health, and require a project where they do research on healthy academic competition and burn out in adolescents, and then are required to "teach" their parents (or other adult) a lesson that they have to put together from their research. Or something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS
In NYC are some of the finest specialty magnets where wealthy parents hire tutors to prepare them for the entrance exam to be taken in eighth grade. A few years ago, the Times did an article on tutors who stopped providing the service because they felt they were setting up an unfair system that poor kids didn't have access to.
But poor kids don't have access to lots of things. I don't understand. So I shouldn't hire a tutor for my child because a poor kid can't afford it? I shouldn't give my kids piano lessons because a poor kid can't afford it? What about organic vegetables? Can't give those to my kids either, only WIC approved foods, to make sure that poor kids have access to the exact same things my kids have access to? We'll need to have the government shut down Pampers and Huggies, only Dollar Store generic diapers allowed for everyone from now on. This doesn't make any sense. Of course poor kids have access to less. That's WHY parents try so hard to give their kids an advantage. So that their kids' kids won't be poor, and will have access to more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS
I don't know what the answer is because obviously you want your kid get better at what they do, but when you keep moving what defines the bottom and expect other kids to go the same path, there's a problem. It's like when the first wave of daycare parents were upset that kindergarten taught letters because their kids already knew them or the parent who spends tons of money on premier level soccer than gets upset that the high school team isn't as competitive as the premier league. I'm all for raising the bar, but when kids get shut out - something needs to be looked at.
Well I'm with you there. A public Kindergarten has to teach letters. They have to start at the beginning to give everyone a fair shot. Period. And if your kid needs more than that in Kindergarten, then it's the parent's responsibility to get it, not the school's. Private school, tutoring, afterschool workbooks with mom, whatever. If the parent can't do it, then I'm sorry, you get letters. A public school should absolutely give everyone a fair shot. But if a parent gives a kid an advantage, the public school should not counteract that advantage in the name of "fairness". That is discriminatory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS
I have experience with Kumon and don't think it's the way schools should do things. Very little creative thought comes out of that sort of drilling and plenty of instances have shown that Asian American kids trained in this method have problems thinking beyond that rationale.
Oh I agree Kumon should not be the main math curriculum at school, absolutely not. It is good for remediation, and extra practice for fluency. I've never used Kumon as a math spine with my kids. But I'll use it in a second if one of my kids starts to get behind. Of course, I'm also of the opinion that math should not be "creative" in any way until Geometry, when you start to learn proofs. Until then, the most important thing to learn is number sense and logic. The ability to truly understand the elementary mathematical operations and manipulation of numbers. In fact I think that creativity hinders this process.
Have you ever read The Well Trained Mind by Susan Wise Bauer? She explains an educational philosophy called the Trivium very well. I think this philosophy has a lot of merit.
"Classical education depends on a three-part process of training the mind. The early years of school are spent in absorbing facts, systematically laying the foundations for advanced study. In the middle grades, students learn to think through arguments. In the high school years, they learn to express themselves. This classical pattern is called the trivium." Classical Education | Helping parents educate their children in the classical tradition since 1999
Elementary school should be focused on learning facts/knowledge, middle on learning logic/analysis, and high school on learning creativity/self expression. The point she makes is that students don't have anything to be creative WITH if they don't first have lots of knowledge and facts, and a developed way of thinking about and analyzing those facts. First you gather knowledge, then you learn how to think, then you apply your own thinking to the knowledge you have. Same in math. Creativity should not come into play for math until high school. In my opinion. Others may vary.
This article is absolutely about the Asian parents vs. the non Asian parents.
Reality isn't racism.
I live very close to the WW school district. Good friend of mine is on the front lines at one of the WW/P highs schools (I posted this article on FB and she got right back to me asking me what I would like to know….I told her and I'm waiting for her response). She's not a teacher, she's in the higher level of admin.
You can't ask on the CD NJ forum "Where is a good school district where Asians live in the Princeton area and we have $800K (or more) to spend on a house" without West Windsor being the first mentioned.
If you want a "good" school district in NJ with a heavy Asian population? You would be directed to No. Edison. Lots of rentals and lots of Asians.
If you want a great school district with a history of being a great school district and culture/race isn't an issue for you? Basking Ridge. Go Ridge!
What isn't mentioned in this article is WHO are the kids needing mental health breaks from the public school stress?
Is it the white kids trying to keep up with their Asian peers or the Asian kids trying to live up to their Asian Tiger Parental expectations?
It's not racist when it's a reality.
Doesn't sound like these kids, either way, would last very long in a private school.
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