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Old 07-15-2017, 03:16 PM
 
Location: So Ca
26,645 posts, read 26,586,585 times
Reputation: 24687

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Quote:
Originally Posted by G1.. View Post
P.S.
Exeter is not the Best in the country,good yes,these are just a few.......

...Harvard-Westlake School
Certainly not exempt from problems.

After Assault | The Harvard-Westlake Chronicle

Jonathan Martin says he didn't fit in during his Harvard-Westlake days - LA Times
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Old 07-15-2017, 03:21 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,668,695 times
Reputation: 20851
Quote:
Originally Posted by G1.. View Post
The two schools you are talking about in Lincroft are "private schools" not public.

P.S.
Exeter is not the Best in the country,good yes,these are just a few.......

The Lawrenceville School

Phillips Academy

Horace Mann School

Harvard-Westlake School
No they are not. I work in the district. They are part of the Monmouth co vocational district which is a public school district. It runs programs from trades to academies and is very much a public district even if the academies are magnets. Oh and biotech is in freehold not lincroft.

Monmouth County Vocational School District
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High...gy_High_School
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monm...chool_District

The link I gave was to Phillips Exeter. Harvard west lake has Sat scores of 1420. Horace Mann 1430. Same for Lawrenceville. They all have lower average SAT scores than HTHS according to niche.

Now I think your list is a good one, but all of those private schools have selective admissions. Lawrenceville had 1800 applicants and took 400. That is even more selective than high tech who takes about 1 out of 4.
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Old 07-15-2017, 09:49 PM
 
12,670 posts, read 8,902,549 times
Reputation: 34662
I wonder how much the US News rankings are ranking the school vs ranking the SES of the student body. Consider their college readiness criteria. 100 means every senior takes at least one AP course. Yet the median was about 21. And then comparing my kids HS to several others in nearby counties, what this score measures is the percent of students who plan on college in that community. The scores for our local area range from about 25 down to about 2, with one school that doesn't offer any AP. And from what I know of the folks, most of those kids will be farmers, or work in a plant, or most who go to college will go to CC (this is a discussion I've had before on CD about the need for more Vo-Tech programs to better fit the needs of the student body). So I understand why the college readiness score is what it is.


But if I were to skim off the top 10% or so from each school, the ones who are taking AP courses, and called them the "Consolidated Magnet Crop Dusting School" their "score" would be right alongside the top schools in the US News list.


And having lived in several of the districts where US News has the top schools in the country, by their rankings, the one thing they have in common is money.


It is really an apples to kumquats comparison.
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Old 07-16-2017, 12:09 AM
 
10,181 posts, read 10,223,512 times
Reputation: 9252
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Your inability to differentiate between schools despite sources, is literally your problem. Reallya ll it shows is you can't and continue to ignore the fact you were wrong.
Yet I did, and found the High Tech you were speaking of.

Did you ignore that part of my post?

Honestly? Your anger over that is more than over the top.

Quote:
High tech, the one I linked to, is the top STEM program in the US, regardless of private or public.
Right - "STEM PROGRAM". Specialized. Public. Specialized.

You need to only compare public "STEM program" schools to other public "STEM program" schools

This shouldn't even be a question.

Quote:
It's students do better at objective measures than even the top private schools.
This is really getting old.

You can't compare a specialized "public" school that even NJ.com stated is (& pretty sure you provided that link):

Quote:
"High Technology High School, a pre-engineering career academy for Monmouth County's top students, posted the highest average score, 1,506.
Come on.

Would your prefer that all public schools and all private schools only report the SAT/ACT scores of their top performing students?

HTH & its other tech school counterpart are specialized public schools - not EVERYONE can attend. I didn't go in to the demographics on purpose. Would you care to?


Quote:
A catch you still ignore. Really why should anyone take anyone as an informed source when they cannot even admit when they were wrong?
There is no catch that I am ignoring - you are the one ignoring said "catch".

Informed source? Facts are facts, you don't have to like them.

I wasn't wrong, I had the wrong HTH...and again, I found the one which you were speaking of.

You want blood?


Quote:
And while they maybe specialized schools they are specialized PUBLIC schools. And the question is public vs private. And when you put the best public against the best private public wins. That is a fact you should be aware of.
No, that's not how it works.

Which is what you still apparently refuse to understand & should know better, especially if you really are an educator.

Quote:
Now if you want to move the goal posts ( a logical fallacy) or make a strawman (a logical fallacy) go ahead, it does not change the fact that private does not beat public when you look at the best of each.
I'm good with facts, but you go ahead and do you for whatever personal reason you are so over the top defensive when it comes to HTH & the other one.
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Old 07-16-2017, 12:47 AM
 
10,181 posts, read 10,223,512 times
Reputation: 9252
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
But if I were to skim off the top 10% or so from each school, the ones who are taking AP courses, and called them the "Consolidated Magnet Crop Dusting School" their "score" would be right alongside the top schools in the US News list.
Exactly.

Quote:
It is really an apples to kumquats comparison.
Absolutely.

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Old 07-16-2017, 12:48 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,647 posts, read 57,711,301 times
Reputation: 46095
Wow... this discussion makes Homeschool seem so simple... If anyone fails it is ME (the teacher)...

They all graduated U pre age 20 wearing the gold "Magna' ropes...(no credit or expense to me) (Free FT College instead of HS chopped off 2+ yrs time and THEIR self funded tuition)

12 yrs PAST college they haven't rebelled / gone postal YET.
Very great jobs and more importantly, they are engaged in community service and leadership.

I followed the lessons I learned while living in Asia...

When the kids headed to college at age 15, I did too.
They held me to a high standard to NOT SCREW up the family GPA (all of us at different U's)

Even post age 50, and working FT + farming and running 2 side businesses, and managing 8 rural props, I too pulled off the "Magna" cords, thanks in large part to the insistence of my kids to "Do it RIGHT". (and their tutoring help to me)

What goes around comes around. None of it was simple or EZ. All was valuable. (Except for my significant lost income due to homeschooling)

Most telling to me... my kids, in college at age 15, were asked to be tutors to adults / ESL / military GI Bill, as well as school ambassadors for the "college-instead-of-HS" program. They were not totally impressed with the program, and yet were able to express reasonably challenging decision criteria to seeking parents and students. Glad they had critical thinking skills at age 15-17. Life is FULL of necessary applications to THINK!
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Old 07-16-2017, 06:46 AM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,668,695 times
Reputation: 20851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Informed Info View Post
Yet I did, and found the High Tech you were speaking of.

Did you ignore that part of my post?

Honestly? Your anger over that is more than over the top.



Right - "STEM PROGRAM". Specialized. Public. Specialized.

You need to only compare public "STEM program" schools to other public "STEM program" schools

This shouldn't even be a question.



This is really getting old.

You can't compare a specialized "public" school that even NJ.com stated is (& pretty sure you provided that link):



Come on.

Would your prefer that all public schools and all private schools only report the SAT/ACT scores of their top performing students?

HTH & its other tech school counterpart are specialized public schools - not EVERYONE can attend. I didn't go in to the demographics on purpose. Would you care to?




There is no catch that I am ignoring - you are the one ignoring said "catch".

Informed source? Facts are facts, you don't have to like them.

I wasn't wrong, I had the wrong HTH...and again, I found the one which you were speaking of.

You want blood?




No, that's not how it works.

Which is what you still apparently refuse to understand & should know better, especially if you really are an educator.



I'm good with facts, but you go ahead and do you for whatever personal reason you are so over the top defensive when it comes to HTH & the other one.
Comparing a specialized program from a public school that gets to be selective about who it admits is absolutely the most apples to apples comparison between a public school and a private school. Exeter, Lawrenceville etc., like all private schools get to be selective about who they admit and can make their program as specialized as they want since they do not need to meet state standards.

When you compare similar public to similar private schools public schools are better. The only way your can pretend private schools are better is when you compare selective private schools to the public schools who cannot be. But even that falls apart when you look at regular, non-specialized public schools like West Windsor Plainsboro who still have SAT scores (1380) on par with some of the best private schools in the country. They are not a specialized school.

Your issues with demographics are yet again an attempt to move the goal posts. The question is which is better public or private, in fact in the OP the question was which is better a good public school or a private school. And the reality is that you have not only not proven that private schools have any advantage over good public schools but have refused to acknowledge that that when it comes to comparing apples to apples, public "wins".
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Old 07-16-2017, 06:50 AM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,668,695 times
Reputation: 20851
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
I wonder how much the US News rankings are ranking the school vs ranking the SES of the student body. Consider their college readiness criteria. 100 means every senior takes at least one AP course. Yet the median was about 21. And then comparing my kids HS to several others in nearby counties, what this score measures is the percent of students who plan on college in that community. The scores for our local area range from about 25 down to about 2, with one school that doesn't offer any AP. And from what I know of the folks, most of those kids will be farmers, or work in a plant, or most who go to college will go to CC (this is a discussion I've had before on CD about the need for more Vo-Tech programs to better fit the needs of the student body). So I understand why the college readiness score is what it is.


But if I were to skim off the top 10% or so from each school, the ones who are taking AP courses, and called them the "Consolidated Magnet Crop Dusting School" their "score" would be right alongside the top schools in the US News list.


And having lived in several of the districts where US News has the top schools in the country, by their rankings, the one thing they have in common is money.


It is really an apples to kumquats comparison.
But that is what the private schools do, they are selective. In fact the OP asked about good public schools vs private. So it is the most apt comparison.

Even take a good public traditional public school, like West Windsor Plainsboro, they take all the students in their district and their quantitative measures are as good as any private school and better than most (average SAT score was 1380).

A good public school is just as good as a private one.

As for HTHS SES 3% of their students qualify for free lunch compared to 3.7% of their largest sending district, Holmdel another very good public school (1310 SAT). The next largest sending district is the one th school is in lincroft, which has a free and reduced lunch percentage of 2%, which suggests is anything the SES of HTHS is somewhat lower than the local public. Monmouth co is in general a well off area. The kids at HTHS are still doing better than one would expect based on just SES.
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Old 07-16-2017, 07:00 AM
 
18,579 posts, read 10,555,178 times
Reputation: 8601
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
No they are not. I work in the district. They are part of the Monmouth co vocational district which is a public school district. It runs programs from trades to academies and is very much a public district even if the academies are magnets. Oh and biotech is in freehold not lincroft.

Monmouth County Vocational School District
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High...gy_High_School
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monm...chool_District

The link I gave was to Phillips Exeter. Harvard west lake has Sat scores of 1420. Horace Mann 1430. Same for Lawrenceville. They all have lower average SAT scores than HTHS according to niche.

Now I think your list is a good one, but all of those private schools have selective admissions. Lawrenceville had 1800 appl

icants and took 400. That is even more selective than high tech who takes about 1 out of 4.

What is with you and the SAT scores?They have been proven worthless and many schools are going without them,classroom work is where colleges are looking.


Here's what happened when these colleges ditched SAT scores - Sep. 8, 2015


https://www.hampshire.edu/news/2015/...ege-admissions
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Old 07-16-2017, 07:12 AM
 
Location: So Ca
26,645 posts, read 26,586,585 times
Reputation: 24687
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
A good public school is just as good as a private one.
Except that at a private school, you usually have children of parents who are very motivated....motivated for their children to do well academically, to behave well, to succeed. Even in a good public school district, you do not have that. And by high school, when most kids want to fit in with their peers, that changes the atmosphere of the school.
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