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A lot of it boils down not to academics but rather to social concerns. I removed a child from an English class and pushed to have her admitted to a more advanced class, even though I knew it would be an extraordinary struggle, because the classroom environment was destroying her love of the subject. I should have done the same thing for my youngest, whose math class was a disaster last year. Peers do matter. It's very hard for a young person to maintain a passion for learning in a classroom or school where the other students are not similarly committed to excelling.
Have these standardized tests changed at all since the 90's? I was homeschooled but was forced to take the CAT every year as a condition of the school district conveniently looking the other way (homeschooling was not specifically legal in our state). Anyway, we just treated the tests as a fun activity, like a workbook exercise and I used to find them absurdly easy. We usually tested 2 grade levels in the same year and there was little difference between them. I remember thinking that the subjects tested were several grades behind what I was learning, so it just felt like a review mostly.
That said, I don't think those tests were really a good standard of educational quality or a measure of individual intelligence. I suppose there has to be some sort of measure by which schools need to be held accountable, but most students can be taught (trained?) to take an exam. It's not an indication of intelligence.
Standardized tests are not a good indicator of anything - standardizing kids isn't appropriate either. As for how we hold teachers "accountable' - well that's hard to do without taking into account so many factors regarding the student. Personally, I think we should ask teachers how they can be held accountable. In my experience, a good principal can hold teachers accountable the old fashion way - observation, communication, knowing how to judge progress. Kids aren't data points, widgets, or uncomplicated products.
A lot of it boils down not to academics but rather to social concerns. I removed a child from an English class and pushed to have her admitted to a more advanced class, even though I knew it would be an extraordinary struggle, because the classroom environment was destroying her love of the subject. I should have done the same thing for my youngest, whose math class was a disaster last year. Peers do matter. It's very hard for a young person to maintain a passion for learning in a classroom or school where the other students are not similarly committed to excelling.
That's where being a pain in the neck helped me . Any student below honors and Level 1 will deal with that in any school.
Thank you for acknowledging that this is a genuine issue, AMSS. My oldest moved off the Honors track in English to make room for extra coursework in another subject area during his junior year, and I remember him being very frustrated with the CP classroom environment. My youngest just started high school, and came home from his first day complaining that the other students in his freshman seminar were obnoxious and disruptive. And he's not a particularly scholarly personality, so I know it must be bad. Unfortunately, there's nothing I can do about that situation.
These are just a FEW of the districts. Read the article.
LI, state opt out numbers grow, April 7, 2016
"On Long Island, the Comsewogue School District had the highest opt out rate as of data on Thursday with 1,458 students or 86 percent of eligible students opting out. It was followed by 79 percent at the Rocky Point Union Free School District with 1,169 and Plainedge School District with 1,110. Connetquot Central School District reported 2,026 opt outs, while Shoreham Wading River Central School Districts reported 804, both just short of two thirds at 74 percent. The Eastport-South Manor Central School District’s 1,178 students who opted out amounted to 73 percent."
Thank you for acknowledging that this is a genuine issue, AMSS. My oldest moved off the Honors track in English to make room for extra coursework in another subject area during his junior year, and I remember him being very frustrated with the CP classroom environment. My youngest just started high school, and came home from his first day complaining that the other students in his freshman seminar were obnoxious and disruptive. And he's not a particularly scholarly personality, so I know it must be bad. Unfortunately, there's nothing I can do about that situation.
I'm actually worried about that with my youngest since he'll likely not be the honors kid. He's in the suburban school district and honestly, I found the urban schools to be so much more receptive to my concerns. Maybe they are thrilled to have parents actually being involved, I'm not sure.
I took tests in elementary school. I did not find them 'damaging' or 'stressful.
Multiple choice is necessary for automated scoring, there is no way to get around that.
If only what is tested is taught, then this is a failure of the system and the system needs to be changed. That concept is bassackwards.
There needs to be standards of what is to be learned *first*, and the testing conducted to ascertain if the standards have been met. If they have not, then the curriculum and/or methodology should be revised.
Multiple choice is the best solution for automated scoring. Anything can be tested if the test is designed properly.
Then buy a better product!
In most any purchasing situation, if the product does not do what it is supposed to, then you either get the product fixed or you get your money back and buy a product that *will* do what you need it to do.
If you buy a car, and it turns out to be a 'lemon', do you say "Well, I'm not going to drive anymore, I'll just walk from now on"?
Hell, no. You take it back, and either get it fixed or get one that works.
What is difficult about that concept?
If the system is broken, THEN FIX THE SYSTEM! Don't just eliminate it, FIX it.
Anything can be tested, if the test is designed correctly.
More often, they are poorly written, riddled with mistakes and ambiguities.[/quote]
Then it's a bad product and it needs to be fixed or replaced with a product that works.
This *sounds* like 'conspiracy theory' nonsense. (Don't take offense, I'm just saying it sounds that way, take it the same way I'm taking your remark to me about being 'ignorant'- I'm not being offended by it, but accepting that perhaps there *is* something going on here that I don't know about.)
But, if the product is bad, or being used incorrectly, there are certainly avenues that can be taken to expose it- like discussions here and media publicity. It can be done anonymously, like certain exposes don on shows like '20/20' and '60 Minutes'. In fact, if you are a teacher, and you have the inside knowledge that the system is bad/broken/rigged then you have a DUTY to the children and to the public (the taxpayers who are paying for it and expecting the children to be educated) to expose it and to work to fix it.
Work to get standards in place to ensure that the proper education is being delivered, and to assure that the testing works to to determine if those standards are being met (and that the kids *are*, in fact, getting the education that *we* are paying for). If the taxpayers are receiving a bad product (children not being educated), then they are going to want to replace it...and the providers.
I'm going to forgo a response on these two items, because I think they are special cases which require a different approach...and my opinions on them would probably go too far away from the topic.
I grew up poor, broken home, mother on welfare, etc., and I had no issues with this in school. Did we just have a better school system? I don't know. What I *do* know, is that I got an excellent education (for the most part)***, and testing was not an issue in such a way as you present it.
Is this an individual system issue? Or does it have a wider scope? Obviously, I *am* ignorant, because my experience was not as you describe.
***(With the exception of math- I suck at math and my test scores started dropping in Algebra, and further on through Alg II, Trig and Calculus where I finally gave up completely. No effort was made to attempt to discover what my issue was or try to correct it...though I think it is simply uncorrectable, my brain just isn't wired for it...I excelled at languages and other areas.)
If not, then why not? That is what it should be used for.
Then the system is broken and needs to be fixed.
Maybe so, maybe no.[/quote]
In testing students in foreign language, I have to make use of questions that cannot be formed as a multiple choice question when assessing whether a student can pronounce words correctly in context. That cannot be assessed properly on a multiple choice test. Tu vas bien and Tout va bien mean two different things, but sound almost alike to the untrained ear.
As a teacher, I have to sign a contract stating that if I disclose any information about the test, I can be fined and/or imprisoned, and I will lose my teaching license. If the public wants teachers to be able to do their duty, they need to look at the government officials who institute these gag orders.
Finally, it takes me 60-70 hours a week to get all my work done, including the regular school hours. I am not going to spend time trying to change a system that by all appearance is rigged by people more interested in investing their money than investing in other people's children. I am going to choose my battle, which is teaching French to children whose parents are bringing them up in the ghetto. I'm trying to make sure that their children have the choice to live where they like.
You really don't understand testing and why it is not applicable. I am a tester and there is a science of test. But for testing to function properly, it has to be properly designed. My comments are highlighted below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zymer
Then the tests need to be changed.
Well, that's sort of what people are saying. But every time they do, someone responds with "we have to have tests to know how well they are doing and so forth." Sound familiar?
I took tests in elementary school. I did not find them 'damaging' or 'stressful.
Don't know about your tests in elementary school, but they were nothing like these today when I went. Those tests were based on the material we covered and told the teacher what to fix. These tests are NOT designed around helping uncover where individual students need help, but for aggregating data about large groups. So they provide no benefit to the student and come at a significant price in lost schooling that is spent on teaching to the test rather than learning.
Multiple choice is necessary for automated scoring, there is no way to get around that.
If only what is tested is taught, then this is a failure of the system and the system needs to be changed. That concept is bassackwards.
Yes, the system needs to be changed. But let someone mention that and they are called anti education or that "we have to have tests to ..."
There needs to be standards of what is to be learned *first*, and the testing conducted to ascertain if the standards have been met. If they have not, then the curriculum and/or methodology should be revised.
Lets see. What "standards" were in place for those who went to the moon? For Gracie Hopper? The more "standards" and standardized testing we implement, the worse we get. What was it someone said about doing the same thing and expecting different results?
Multiple choice is the best solution for automated scoring. Anything can be tested if the test is designed properly.
That's a very false assumption that leads to wrong conclusions. Not everything can be tested. Especially when using multiple choice. Some of the most important concepts and in depth understanding cannot be measured multiple choice.
Then buy a better product!
In most any purchasing situation, if the product does not do what it is supposed to, then you either get the product fixed or you get your money back and buy a product that *will* do what you need it to do.
In a purchasing situation, I have a choice, including not to purchase. This lemon is being force fed to parents. Yes we'd love to "take it back." But if someone says something, then, the response is "You have to have testing ..."
If you buy a car, and it turns out to be a 'lemon', do you say "Well, I'm not going to drive anymore, I'll just walk from now on"?
Hell, no. You take it back, and either get it fixed or get one that works.
What is difficult about that concept?
If the system is broken, THEN FIX THE SYSTEM! Don't just eliminate it, FIX it. We are. When every someone says something. Oh heck this is getting repetitive.
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. Any student below honors and Level 1 will deal with that in any school.
