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Our method of classroom learning derives from the 19th century and hasn't really been updated conceptually since then. For thousands of years most humans did not learn in authoritatively organized classrooms. Monks, nuns and priests did. The practices of institutions which trained them form the foundation of modern universities.
There's a certain kind of person that is going to thrive in that environment, and certain kinds of people who will not.
That is completely true, as I have posted about in other threads.
I often wonder if I would get along better with teachers if I was in school now, rather than when I actually was (1984 - 1997 for K-12). Many of the questions that I would ask that would anger teachers, I could probably just look up on the internet these days.
For example, my AP chemistry teacher told us which elements are diatomic, and include "All Group 17 elements", and then he listed them, but did not mention astatine, which is at the bottom of Group 17. So I asked about astentine. And he then started yelling at me, said I was "making an astatine of myself", and that he doesn't have time to answer my stupid questions. Nowadays, I could have looked that up on Wikipedia rather than asking.
While I understand that teachers don't always have time to answer questions beyond the scope of the class, I don't understand why they were always so nasty to me about it. All they needed to say was "That is beyond the scope of the class, and there are other things that you have to learn before that will make sense". Also, many of my teachers would use the excuse that "there are students struggling to learn the material, so I don't have time for your questions". In an AP class, if a student is truly struggling, they don't belong in that AP class. AP classes should be a challenge, not a struggle. At the very least, the level of instruction should not be geared toward those who are struggling.
It was so refreshing when I finished high school and hit college. My professors were delighted if I was ready to go "to infinity, and beyond!" and also were quite capable of making the trip with me. Of course most, or at least more than half of the class was also in on the trip. In high school, the teachers usually could *not* make the jump, and it apparently hurt their misplaced pride that I had shown them up. And before someone accuses me of being a braggart - it was not that I was so good, it was that they were so bad!
Last edited by toobusytoday; 10-06-2016 at 06:20 AM..
Reason: removed the insults
I often wonder if I would get along better with teachers if I was in school now, rather than when I actually was (1984 - 1997 for K-12). Many of the questions that I would ask that would anger teachers, I could probably just look up on the internet these days.
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Well, if I were a student today, but knowing what I know now, I'd probably tick them off even more. Back then I'd ask the question, but would not argue with a teacher. Now days I'm much less inclined to put up with the BS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa
I don't recall ever angering a teacher with my questions.
When I taught, I was never angered by students' questions, either.
Where I went to school pretty much any question angered the teachers if you exceeded their knowledge. I didn't realize what real inquiry was until college where the faculty did know the answers. What Mitch says below is very much what I experienced in school.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Mitch
...
It was so refreshing when I finished high school and hit college. My professors were delighted if I was ready to go "to infinity, and beyond!" and also were quite capable of making the trip with me. Of course most, or at least more than half of the class was also in on the trip. In high school, the teachers usually could *not* make the jump, and it apparently hurt their misplaced pride that I had shown them up. And before someone accuses me of being a braggart - it was not that I was so good, it was that they were so bad!
I don't see it as bragging so much as reality because I experienced it too. With the exception of just a handful of teachers, your last sentence sums it up pretty well.
I don't recall ever angering a teacher with my questions.
When I taught, I was never angered by students' questions, either.
Then you had better teachers than I had. I was unlucky in that most of my teachers were near the end of their career, and were just counting the days until they could collect their pension.
I didn't read the whole thread but I think that is nonsense. Maybe in Russia that is how things work.
If you ask somebody who they are, they will say their name. If you ask them what they are they might give a different answer. That could be a language difference between Russia and here. The culture is completely different. They are communists and individuality isn't nurtured.
From what I have witnessed, A students usually excel due to their own intelligence, drive, curiosity and excellence. They are the ones who are involved in the extra-curricular activities, like performing arts and sports. They have interests besides getting an A on their report card. They show up for school and they do their work. They turn in their assignments on time.
The C student might be very intelligent and imaginative but not interested in school. Nobody told them to do their homework. That is the difference between a C student and an A student. It is knowing that you are supposed to show up and do your work. If you are on a sports team, you have to show up and do your work. As part of a team you have to be there.
People who don't participate, don't learn those lessons. When you grow up and you forget to show up and do your work, you get fired. If you are not a team player, you don't make the grade. That C in grammar school didn't matter, but the C in real life matters. There are a lot of people who can't compete, and can't do life for some reason. These aren't all the C students. There are A students that fail at real life. What is the raw material? That makes a difference. We aren't all cookie cutters.
Being a C student does not mean you are stupid. There are so many different brands of smart. Some people are great at a trade but not good at academics. They could be artists, and craftsmen and Mr. Fixits and be completely successful as long as they show up for work. Some people are great parents, and that is what they have to show up for.
I did not push my kids. If they were stupid that was fine with me, just as long as they showed up and did their work.
Whoever did that study doesn't know anybody I know.
Last edited by Veronicka; 10-05-2016 at 07:32 PM..
I didn't read the whole thread but I think that is nonsense. Maybe in Russia that is how things work.
If you ask somebody who they are, they will say their name. If you ask them what they are they might give a different answer. That could be a language difference between Russia and here. The culture is completely different. They are communists and individuality isn't nurtured.
From what I have witnessed, A students usually excel due to their own intelligence, drive, curiosity and excellence. They are the ones who are involved in the extra-curricular activities, like performing arts and sports. They have interests besides getting an A on their report card. They show up for school and they do their work. They turn in their assignments on time.
The C student might be very intelligent and imaginative but not interested in school. Nobody told them to do their homework. That is the difference between a C student and an A student. It is knowing that you are supposed to show up and do your work. If you are on a sports team, you have to show up and do your work. As part of a team you have to be there.
People who don't participate, don't learn those lessons. When you grow up and you forget to show up and do your work, you get fired. If you are not a team player, you don't make the grade. That C in grammar school didn't matter, but the C in real life matters. There are a lot of people who can't compete, and can't do life for some reason. These aren't all the C students. There are A students that fail at real life. What is the raw material? That makes a difference. We aren't all cookie cutters.
Being a C student does not mean you are stupid. There are so many different brands of smart. Some people are great at a trade but not good at academics. They could be artists, and craftsmen and Mr. Fixits and be completely successful as long as they show up for work. Some people are great parents, and that is what they have to show up for.
I did not push my kids. If they were stupid that was fine with me, just as long as they showed up and did their work.
Whoever did that study doesn't know anybody I know.
I agree. Some kids excel academically and some excel at other aspects of life. I like to read, but I have no interest in auto mechanics. I remember as early as 2nd grade there were some kids who just could not read very well. I wouldn't use a 6th grade report card to define a human being.
I am pretty sure there are countless psychologists with their own opinions which will vary as much as the grades of the kids in 6th grade. There are countless viewpoints from individuals in any profession.
Second para. = "Would they even do the activities they do if it weren't for the fact it gives them a leg up in college admissions?" Absolutely. Looking back on it, my H.S. extracurricular activities reflect the things I would pursue throughout my life or take back up many years later (incl. as part of a profession). I didn't expect to ever attend college; only about 66% of H.S. graduates (nationwide) do. That % was much lower at my H.S. (serving a rural community of 40,000).
I'm talking about kids who ARE intending to go to college. I highly doubt they'd do all of the activities they do to make that resume look good if they weren't going to college. Kids in my school run themselves ragged trying to outdo their peers and have the best resume. Kids who aren't planning on going to college do what they like to do not what they believe will look good on a resume. I wasn't talking about them. They are rarely my A students. They don't usually care about grades. They're quite a mix. Some are nice kids who try others just wonder why they're being made to take this class and do little.
That wasn't my experience, and I was college-bound. I did the extracurriculars I did because I loved them. I continued them in college, and most of them still play a big role in my life.playing the flute was the only one I really dropped, and that, I did for about nine years.
I didn't do them "to compete with my peers for college admission." Most of my graduating class attended our local, open admission community college, if they went anywhere at all. All my extracurricular were personal interests.
I didn't read the whole thread but I think that is nonsense. Maybe in Russia that is how things work.
If you ask somebody who they are, they will say their name. If you ask them what they are they might give a different answer. That could be a language difference between Russia and here. The culture is completely different. They are communists and individuality isn't nurtured.
From what I have witnessed, A students usually excel due to their own intelligence, drive, curiosity and excellence. They are the ones who are involved in the extra-curricular activities, like performing arts and sports. They have interests besides getting an A on their report card. They show up for school and they do their work. They turn in their assignments on time.
The C student might be very intelligent and imaginative but not interested in school. Nobody told them to do their homework. That is the difference between a C student and an A student. It is knowing that you are supposed to show up and do your work. If you are on a sports team, you have to show up and do your work. As part of a team you have to be there.
People who don't participate, don't learn those lessons. When you grow up and you forget to show up and do your work, you get fired. If you are not a team player, you don't make the grade. That C in grammar school didn't matter, but the C in real life matters. There are a lot of people who can't compete, and can't do life for some reason. These aren't all the C students. There are A students that fail at real life. What is the raw material? That makes a difference. We aren't all cookie cutters.
Being a C student does not mean you are stupid. There are so many different brands of smart. Some people are great at a trade but not good at academics. They could be artists, and craftsmen and Mr. Fixits and be completely successful as long as they show up for work. Some people are great parents, and that is what they have to show up for.
I did not push my kids. If they were stupid that was fine with me, just as long as they showed up and did their work.
Whoever did that study doesn't know anybody I know.
I agree. In re: the bold, I will say if a kid is good at a trade, it stands to reason s/he would excel in that trade, e.g. do "A" work! Ditto for parenting.
I didn't read the whole thread but I think that is nonsense. Maybe in Russia that is how things work.
If you ask somebody who they are, they will say their name. If you ask them what they are they might give a different answer. That could be a language difference between Russia and here. The culture is completely different. They are communists and individuality isn't nurtured.
From what I have witnessed, A students usually excel due to their own intelligence, drive, curiosity and excellence. They are the ones who are involved in the extra-curricular activities, like performing arts and sports. They have interests besides getting an A on their report card. They show up for school and they do their work. They turn in their assignments on time.
The C student might be very intelligent and imaginative but not interested in school. Nobody told them to do their homework. That is the difference between a C student and an A student. It is knowing that you are supposed to show up and do your work. If you are on a sports team, you have to show up and do your work. As part of a team you have to be there.
People who don't participate, don't learn those lessons. When you grow up and you forget to show up and do your work, you get fired. If you are not a team player, you don't make the grade. That C in grammar school didn't matter, but the C in real life matters. There are a lot of people who can't compete, and can't do life for some reason. These aren't all the C students. There are A students that fail at real life. What is the raw material? That makes a difference. We aren't all cookie cutters.
Being a C student does not mean you are stupid. There are so many different brands of smart. Some people are great at a trade but not good at academics. They could be artists, and craftsmen and Mr. Fixits and be completely successful as long as they show up for work. Some people are great parents, and that is what they have to show up for.
I did not push my kids. If they were stupid that was fine with me, just as long as they showed up and did their work.
Whoever did that study doesn't know anybody I know.
Not all A students are told these things or get support from parents/teachers. I noticed a lot of C students are real life C students. When I tempted, I met a lot of people. Sometimes, we'd talk about childhood and school. I noticed many C students were coddled as children. One guy I talked to who the typical dumb jock kind. Actually said to me "You made your own breakfast?" when I was school aged. I said "Yes, or I didn't eat".He lived at home for a long time. I think he stills does.
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