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A: First of all, remember that censorship is a heck of a lot easier with digital than it is with paper. Whether it is direct censorship or suddenly not having your "books" anymore, years down the line, because a license wasn't renewed at the host company, it is still a marked disadvantage over books.
B: I use my books to the max which includes writing notes in the margins. A text book is not something you just read.
C: I think Giles said it best:
Jenny Calendar: Honestly, what is it about them that bothers you so much? Giles: The smell. Jenny Calendar: Computers don't smell, Rupert. Giles: I know. Smell is the most powerful trigger to the memory there is. A certain flower, or a-a whiff of smoke can bring up experiences long forgotten. Books smell musty and-and-and rich. The knowledge gained from a computer is a... it, uh, it has no-no texture, no-no context. It's-it's there and then it's gone. If it's to last, then-then the getting of knowledge should be, uh, tangible. It should be, um, smelly.
(from IMDB, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, "I, Robot.....you Jane").
We are trying to teach people to learn here, after all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cat1116
Think of how many backpacks would be lightened and the health benefits of not lugging so many heavy books around. It might not be so cheap at first making sure everyone can get a tablet but then after that is accomplished you can guess how much is saved every year of not purchasing books. Yet, I might be forgetting here that we're talking of kids and accidental drops with major damages to said electronics. Books can take beatings too and ripped out pages, hmmm. Thinking. I'd still prefer lighter on the backs. Prevention of back/other health issues.
There's +/-'s to both sides of that argument but I'm still going with the lighter back load as the ultimate decider.
Whatever happened to memorization if that is the issue?
Last edited by TamaraSavannah; 05-02-2017 at 01:59 AM..
Whatever happened to memorization if that is the issue?
It is interesting that Socrates contended that the written word was the enemy of memory. Before writing, culture was passed down orally by memorizing the stories of the culture.
Both the Internet and oral tradition operate via navigation through webs of options; both depend upon multiple, distributed authorship; both work through rule-governed processes rather than fossilized texts; and both ultimately derive their strength from their ability to change and adapt.
This is in word doc form, so I can't post a url
From The Pencil Revolution
By Bill N. Lacy
Lacy is president of The Cooper Union, private, all-scholarship college in New York
Quote:
Doubtless the most important development of the age has been the introduction of the “personal” or “home” pencil, which has prompted a series of changes we call “The Pencil Revolution.” When pencils appeared, few accurately predicted the great impact they would have. Originally thick and blunt, it was not until the arrival of the user-friendly pencils, accompanied by a sharpener, that they were taken advantage of on a widespread basis.
Quote:
It was not long thereafter that the introduction of pencils in higher education was witnessed, and universities found themselves facing the demand for the new equipment. There was considerable debate about the pencil’s importance. “Just because they have a pencil doesn’t mean a lot of education is going on,” was a common sentiment. Eventually, though, the great schools fell into line.
We also had Smartboards installed that became costly useless wall art in most classrooms because they were so buggy and unreliable.
At least 95% of the classrooms that I sub in have smartboards. They are mostly used for projecting videos. Some math and science teachers use them extensively for math problems, etc. I have had to use them for math and language arts lessons in elementary classes. I've never run into any that were buggy and unreliable. There is an adjustment or orientation that sometimes needs to be done with smartboards. The orientation process aligns the projected image with the working area on the smartboard.
I've seen smartboards that get very little use. The reason is the teacher is not very computer literate. I subbed for one numerous times this year who won't do online attendance. He sends a list to the attendance office.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clearlevel
We should just go back to marker boards.
We also haven't talked about how technology tends to distract kids instead of actually get kids to focus on schools. People fiddle around with these devices in ways that they don't with books. At least with books, they're more focused on the text itself. Students shouldn't have computers in classrooms (especially since tablets and computers are so extensively used at the home). What they should have are computer labs, where there are dedicated rooms with PC's and tablets that allows students to play with them, in dedicated classrooms. Maybe once or twice a week, we could take kids to learn how to touch type and use technology for educational purposes and at the middle school level.
Also, I remember when textbooks would last like 3 to 5 years until they were replaced. Don't you remember the old days when they would have you write your name on the front page, and there were like 10 or 15 names that were presumably from many years before. Yeah, the books were ripped and torn, but books actually last a long time.
No question that putting an electronic device in a students' hands distracts them. I think we just haven't figured out how to effectively use electronic devices in the classroom. The trend I am seeing is an over dependence on worksheets where students prefer to use Google on their smartphone to find the anser rather than using a textbook.
Textbooks have always last longer than 3-5 years. I see many history textbooks in schools that are from the early 2000s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cida
I'm waiting for a study to prove that people don't absorb as much reading electronically as from physical books.
I read a lot of nonfiction books on a tablet. I actually like it better since I can read in the dark and adjust the font size. I like touching a word and getting a dictionary to pop up with the definition. There are a few downsides. I like being able to easily go back and look up something. I find that more difficult on a tablet with the Kindle application, so I do it less. I also like having an index to assist in finding a word or term where I want to go back and find where it was first used in the book. These things can be done but I find that it is easier with a physical book.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wawa1992
I think they're a good idea. I remember the back pain I had as a kid carrying a backpack.
Yes, there are students carrying way too much weight in their backpacks. It can't be good for them. BTW, I happen to have a couple of textbooks here. I have a HS English textbook that weights 6 lbs. 12 oz. I have a HS American government book that weighs 5 lbs. 9 oz. Textbooks have become thicker and heavier to include everything that might be a checklist item on a request for proposal (RFP).
Yes, there are students carrying way too much weight in their backpacks. It can't be good for them. BTW, I happen to have a couple of textbooks here. I have a HS English textbook that weights 6 lbs. 12 oz. I have a HS American government book that weighs 5 lbs. 9 oz. Textbooks have become thicker and heavier to include everything that might be a checklist item on a request for proposal (RFP).
We MUST make textbooks lighter if we're going to stick with them. Is it really worth it to give students back pain because of RFPs? 99.99% of students don't know what the ^$#! an RFP is. Nearly 7 pounds is way too heavy for a textbook. I remember in middle school (mid 2000s) my backpack weighed 30 pounds! It's been over a decade and I'm still mad.
There needs to be a limit on textbook weight. Like 2 1/2 pounds per textbook or something like that. Make 'em paperback, put less material in them, make the print smaller, something. I can tell you that carrying that bag made me feel like my back was going to snap in half. And I wasn't a small 12 year old. A full load of middle school textbooks should be LESS than 10 pounds. That's a reason to support tablets.
We MUST make textbooks lighter if we're going to stick with them. Is it really worth it to give students back pain because of RFPs? 99.99% of students don't know what the ^$#! an RFP is. Nearly 7 pounds is way too heavy for a textbook. I remember in middle school (mid 2000s) my backpack weighed 30 pounds! It's been over a decade and I'm still mad.
There needs to be a limit on textbook weight. Like 2 1/2 pounds per textbook or something like that. Make 'em paperback, put less material in them, make the print smaller, something. I can tell you that carrying that bag made me feel like my back was going to snap in half. And I wasn't a small 12 year old. A full load of middle school textbooks should be LESS than 10 pounds. That's a reason to support tablets.
Well gee. That's the measure of a good textbook. How much it weighs.
Well gee. That's the measure of a good textbook. How much it weighs.
That may be why tablets are a good idea. If we can't make books light enough for kids to carry without it being painful, then maybe an electronic solution is correct. If you're worried about kids getting distracted, make the tablets where they can only hold textbooks and notes. They don't have to be a full-featured iPad. They could make them rugged (think OLPC laptop) and the unit itself could probably cost under $50.
Any State that has a State University with an Education Department should require that Department to provide a full line of e-textbooks at no charge to all school districts in the State. Make them earn their money.
I read a lot, and now I mostly read on screen. You don't get shadows and you can enlarge the font if necessary. It's wasteful that we're still using PDF's, which either compress the text unnecessarily -- we can download megabytes now -- or make every page a JPG.
One paper book I did get recently was Richard Feynman's account of reviewing prospective textbooks for his California school district. He was politicked off the board because he kept pointing out how worthless the books were and how they were written by people who didn't know what they were talking about. Are e-texts any better?
We MUST make textbooks lighter if we're going to stick with them. Is it really worth it to give students back pain because of RFPs? 99.99% of students don't know what the ^$#! an RFP is. Nearly 7 pounds is way too heavy for a textbook. I remember in middle school (mid 2000s) my backpack weighed 30 pounds! It's been over a decade and I'm still mad.
There needs to be a limit on textbook weight. Like 2 1/2 pounds per textbook or something like that. Make 'em paperback, put less material in them, make the print smaller, something. I can tell you that carrying that bag made me feel like my back was going to snap in half. And I wasn't a small 12 year old. A full load of middle school textbooks should be LESS than 10 pounds. That's a reason to support tablets.
I don't think you understand what I said. The English textbook I was referring to is Holt Elements of Literature. It is 1579 pages long. It is easily twice as long as is necessary for an 11th grade course in English literature. The reason it is so long is Holt, Rinehart & Winston, the publisher wants to make sure they comply with bid specs when large school districts or states put out an Request for Proposal to do a volume purchase of school textbooks. A committee will evaluate the proposed textbook and they want to make sure that everything that could be taught in 11th grade English is included in that book. Because the books are so heavy, most schools don't issue a book for each student to take home. Many schools only have a classroom set that never leaves the classroom. But since most teachers don't have student read an assignment for homework, it is not an issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Ferris
Any State that has a State University with an Education Department should require that Department to provide a full line of e-textbooks at no charge to all school districts in the State. Make them earn their money.
I read a lot, and now I mostly read on screen. You don't get shadows and you can enlarge the font if necessary. It's wasteful that we're still using PDF's, which either compress the text unnecessarily -- we can download megabytes now -- or make every page a JPG.
One paper book I did get recently was Richard Feynman's account of reviewing prospective textbooks for his California school district. He was politicked off the board because he kept pointing out how worthless the books were and how they were written by people who didn't know what they were talking about. Are e-texts any better?
I'm not understanding your comment about "Any State that has a State University with an Education Department should require that Department to provide a full line of e-textbooks at no charge to all school districts in the State." Universities are typically not in the business of publishing textbooks. There are textbook publishers who are in this business. College professors often publish college textbooks in conjunction with these publishing companies. This is often a substantial source of income for college professors. Why would they want their universities to compete with these same textbook publishers?
The problem that I have encountered is that an e-textbook at an HS level (especially AP classes) cost no less than the printed text version & you only have a one year subscription to the e-book. Can't sell it back to the bookstore/friend & at deep discount or keep it for a younger sibling.
You've got nada, once that subscription is up.
The school my kids attend require everyone have their own personal iPad for high school.
Some teachers will not allow anything other than an e-textbook, some give the kids a choice, some are strictly text books (of the physical kind).
The college my 18 year old will be going to in the fall gives an option to the students (thankfully, b/c my 18 year old prefers a "real book"). They can choose to purchase an e-book, if available, or the physical text book.
So how does this work in a public school? Does a public school get a 5 year contract with a publisher for spending the money on a "institutional sized" download of an e-textbook? Do they get a huge discount for doing so? I can't see how that makes any sense, monetarily, especially when you figure in the cost of a "tablet" for all?
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