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It's fun talking about three month, or 14 week summer break, but as I mentioned in a post up-thread, the majority of states REQUIRE 180 instructional days: https://www.ecs.org/clearinghouse/78/24/7824.pdf You simply cannot do that if school doesn't start before labor day AND end by Memorial day and have minimal short vacations. I say that because my district starts the week before labor day, has just 3 weeks of vacation throughout the school year and still ends sometime between June 6 and 12th. A few snow days are built in, but it's just as likely that Spring break is taken back too.
In California however the trend started in 1998 when the state legislation changed to no longer allow staff development or teacher only days to count toward the 180 school day requirement. As this measure, which took effect starting at the 1999-2000 school year, took away many of these teacher training "breaks" in the school year, an increasingly number of school districts around the state, particularly in the SF Bay Area and the Central Valley started to experiment with an earlier start in order to make time for some non holiday school breaks days. Often by initially changing the first day of school from the week following labor day to the week before labor day as ending the school year later seems unpopular.
I worked in LAUSD for 17 years, always in year round schools, before they all went to traditional calendars. I loved it, but that was for ME, not the students! I was always in Concept 6 schools, so the breaks are longer. I think the better model is a year round school (6/2 weeks on/off or 9/3) that allows breaks but has students not forgetting the subject matter. However, I know the year round schedules (which they tried in the Valley for a time and no one was happy about it) cause issues with childcare and parents wanting to be on the same schedule as relatives, etc...for vacation purposes.
There is just not much need for the traditional calendar anymore, we are no longer a largely a farming nation.
I worked in LAUSD for 17 years, always in year round schools, before they all went to traditional calendars. I loved it, but that was for ME, not the students! I was always in Concept 6 schools, so the breaks are longer. I think the better model is a year round school (6/2 weeks on/off or 9/3) that allows breaks but has students not forgetting the subject matter. However, I know the year round schedules (which they tried in the Valley for a time and no one was happy about it) cause issues with childcare and parents wanting to be on the same schedule as relatives, etc...for vacation purposes.
There is just not much need for the traditional calendar anymore, we are no longer a largely a farming nation.
It wasn't really even a "farm schedule", I think that's sometimes used to denigrate those who live in rural areas today without being openly insulting by calling them toothless mouth breathing, meth using, sister ****ing inbreds, as happens on City Data on an almost daily basis.
If you look, those states that had a heavily agricultural base (essentially almost all of them outside New England) had school years of anywhere from 100 to 140 days, essentially October through March/April. Southern states had their wrinkle in that White students had a longer school year than Black students.
Today in a lot of areas, and a couple of us mentioned it, tourism drives school calendar decisions in a lot of areas. Virginia a couple decades ago passed the King's Dominion/Busch Gardens law, at those venues request, mandating schools not start until after Labor Day to allow one more big tourism weekend.
Governor Hogan in Maryland did sign an EO last year mandating a post-Labor Day school start. That was partly for sales tax revenue reasons by adding an extra week or two to Summer for tourism and partly because school years in a couple or three systems crept closer to August 1 and the end of June every year or so.
Before I go on, only an idiot thinks "the union" forces more in-service and professional days or that teachers want them. They're being forced by the almost constant change in tests and mandated, in many cases, by various state Boards of Education. In Maryland, the worse your school system does the more in-service and training days are mandated. A minimum of 10 days for all school systems is embodied as law in COMAR.
Schedule creep is one of the reforms jump started thirty or so years ago with the release of A Nation At Risk. A reform, as I mentioned earlier like every single reform the last thirty years, aimed at the lowest achieving student cohort.
It's thought, and some research shows, that the poorest kids lose incredible ground over summer. But when you break down that cohort it gets interesting.
Poor White and Asian students lose less ground over the summer than Black and Hispanic ones from all income levels. The numbers get even more interesting when you look at SAT scores, the poorest White cohort combined score is only 10 points lower than the score of the wealthiest Black cohort. I don't remember the Hispanic number but the range is similar. The difference in AP scores follows the same track.
Full disclosure: it's been four years since I've worked with the numbers so they may have changed. But I doubt it.
So, the summer break goes into that bucket of school reforms that includes constant, and constantly changing, tests, school uniforms, increased social services involvement, recovery credits, make up projects, reduced discipline policies (although that was tied more into disparate impact), etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person
It wasn't really even a "farm schedule", I think that's sometimes used to denigrate those who live in rural areas today without being openly insulting by calling them toothless mouth breathing, meth using, sister ****ing inbreds, as happens on City Data on an almost daily basis.
If you look, those states that had a heavily agricultural base (essentially almost all of them outside New England) had school years of anywhere from 100 to 140 days, essentially October through March/April. Southern states had their wrinkle in that White students had a longer school year than Black students.
Today in a lot of areas, and a couple of us mentioned it, tourism drives school calendar decisions in a lot of areas. Virginia a couple decades ago passed the King's Dominion/Busch Gardens law, at those venues request, mandating schools not start until after Labor Day to allow one more big tourism weekend.
It's always good to get your input as an educator. I would say, in my district, there is also parent/student pressure, sometimes pressure from school board members to give an extra day off here/there/somewhere for someone's agenda.
For example, parents-Many people here in Colorado are transplants from somewhere else, and people are frequently traveling "back home" (or to Mexico) for holidays. Many parents take their kids out of school the day before a holiday starts, leaving teachers with numerous absences. For example, when my older daughter started K in 1989, Thanksgiving break was Wednesday-Friday. Well, that apparently wasn't enough travel time for some parents, and they took their kids out of school on Tuesday as well. So a few years later, Thanksgiving break was Tuesday-Friday. That clearly made NO sense (to go to school Monday only of Thanksgiving week), so now it's the whole week. Two weeks at winter break isn't enough for some parents either. Depending on the day of the week New Year's Day is, school sometimes doesn't start until well into the first week of January. This year, school will not start up again until January 8, getting out Dec. 22. Those days have to be added at the beginning/end of the year.
Students-As I shared earlier, some high school students petitioned the school board to have the first semester end by winter break. Ergo, earlier start.
Board members-A former board member spent time as a child in a concentration camp, therefore insisted that Veterans' Day be a holiday (even though it really symbolizes the end of WW I, not WW II).
They do seem to have pulled "Columbus Day" which my kids used to get.
Oddly, for a state so dependent on tourism, there's no clamor from the mountain towns for a later start, though I don't know what they do in their own districts.
No they should not. There's some of us adults that take advantage of that last week of august to hit up water parks and other attractions that are still open but there's a lot less business because there's a lot less kids... Don't ruin that week for us!
The last week of august and random weeks in mid September and early October are my favorite vacation times. Less people go during these times and its not as hot out for hiking.
On the other hand, making kids go to school in the summer is a dumb idea. Most people enjoy warmth more than cold and there's a whole industry built around providing summer family entertainment that would be hurt. Things are just fine the way they are. we don't need to change everything just for the sake of change.
For example, parents-Many people here in Colorado are transplants from somewhere else, and people are frequently traveling "back home" (or to Mexico) for holidays. Many parents take their kids out of school the day before a holiday starts, leaving teachers with numerous absences. For example, when my older daughter started K in 1989, Thanksgiving break was Wednesday-Friday. Well, that apparently wasn't enough travel time for some parents, and they took their kids out of school on Tuesday as well. So a few years later, Thanksgiving break was Tuesday-Friday.
I remember back in February 1972 my family and I were flying to Barbados. We had to leave a day before midwinter break since we otherwise couldn't get a flight. I was having some issues with the school so my parents wouldn't call me in sick. The result; my English teacher, with whom some of the issues were with, cut my grade from an A to a B+. Parenthetically when my father was about to die a little less than a year later a history teacher with adjacent offices wanted to see me. That English teacher said "Jim, I see you're having problems again." She was a bit contrite when I told her what the problem was even though there was no love lost between her and my father.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt
Students-As I shared earlier, some high school students petitioned the school board to have the first semester end by winter break. Ergo, earlier start.
That's actually a very good reason for an early start. Having exams from the prior semester after vacation makes no sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt
Oddly, for a state so dependent on tourism, there's no clamor from the mountain towns for a later start, though I don't know what they do in their own districts.
At least in Rocky Mountain National Park the roads may be closed by very early September or late August. So it's not a great tourism time. Weather can be tricky up there; my wife and I got "Rocky Mountained," i.e. glasses were nicked by hail at the 11,000 to 12,000 foot level even in July.
I remember back in February 1972 my family and I were flying to Barbados. We had to leave a day before midwinter break since we otherwise couldn't get a flight. I was having some issues with the school so my parents wouldn't call me in sick. The result; my English teacher, with whom some of the issues were with, cut my grade from an A to a B+. Parenthetically when my father was about to die a little less than a year later a history teacher with adjacent offices wanted to see me. That English teacher said "Jim, I see you're having problems again." She was a bit contrite when I told her what the problem was even though there was no love lost between her and my father.
That's actually a very good reason for an early start. Having exams from the prior semester after vacation makes no sense.
At least in Rocky Mountain National Park the roads may be closed by very early September or late August. So it's not a great tourism time. Weather can be tricky up there; my wife and I got "Rocky Mountained," i.e. glasses were nicked by hail at the 11,000 to 12,000 foot level even in July.
Para 1: I have to say I don't have much sympathy for whatever consequences ensued for "we had to leave early to go to Barbados". OTOH, the English teacher spoke out of turn and maybe that was a good lesson for him/her, to not be so presumptuous.
#2: I was not saying one way or the other, just saying how it happened. OTOH, when my daughter went off to college and had finals before winter break, she thought it was very stressful, getting ready for Christmas, a Christmas concert (she went to a church concert and was in the orchestra), make reservations home, etc. When my kids were in HS, they went back to school in January, had classes for about a week (I think, it's been >10 years since the youngest was in HS), then a review week, (maybe half week), then finals about the third week in January. Having seen both systems in effect, I don't think it makes a lot of difference either way. My kids never had assignments over winter break, papers to write, etc. I mean, the semester was almost over! If they had a bit of homework, say in a math class, they usually did it the night before school started up again.
#3. Trail Ridge Road through Rocky Mountain National Park closes when it gets snowed in. Last year, that was November 18. The average date according to the NPS is October 23. https://www.nps.gov/romo/learn/news/...the-season.htm The top 4 miles of Mt. Evans road, run by the Forest Service, not the Park Service, was closed yesterday (Sept. 5). https://www.fs.usda.gov/wps/portal/f...d=fsm91_058388 I have lived here in Colorado for 37 years, don't need to be told what the weather is like. It is usually nicer in the fall than the spring, actually.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 09-06-2017 at 11:10 AM..
Reason: clarify, fix link
Para 1: I have to say I don't have much sympathy for whatever consequences ensued for "we had to leave early to go to Barbados". OTOH, the English teacher spoke out of turn and maybe that was a good lesson for him/her, to not be so presumptuous.
Families have lives too. But as you can see from the grades in question I was hardly in overall default on my school obligations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt
#2: I was not saying one way or the other, just saying how it happened. OTOH, when my daughter went off to college and had finals before winter break, she thought it was very stressful, getting ready for Christmas, a Christmas concert (she went to a church concert and was in the orchestra), make reservations home, etc. When my kids were in HS, they went back to school in January, had classes for about a week (I think, it's been >10 years since the youngest was in HS), then a review week, (maybe half week), then finals about the third week in January. Having seen both systems in effect, I don't think it makes a lot of difference either way. My kids never had assignments over winter break, papers to write, etc. I mean, the semester was almost over! If they had a bit of homework, say in a math class, they usually did it the night before school started up again.
I'll admit it's a toss-up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt
I have lived here in Colorado for 37 years, don't need to be told what the weather is like. It is usually nicer in the fall than the spring, actually.
September 17, 1971 Denver weather had a high of 35, low of 32 and 12" of snow (link). Next day had a low of 23° and the day after 20°. See also news articles on the storm (link#1)(link #2). I even remember the news coverage, and hoped it meant New York City would have a decently snowy winter. It didn't.
Granted that was before you arrived. Just saying.
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