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Y'all must be easy graders. I'm talking grade survival level here -- struggling for a D.
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Originally Posted by erasure
I know perfectly well what you are talking about, but the problem is bolded.
Had similar problem when my kid was in college. He was in tech field, but his English Writing class ( or whatever) teacher was a plain nuisance. What mattered to HER was the "headers and liners" - the particular format she insisted the home works should be done. And if it was not done the perfect way she wanted, she was greatly downgrading otherwise good essay. Things like that. He was wasting his valuable time on nonsense like that, instead of paying more attention to tech. classes that REALLY mattered.
At the end, he had to retake that class.
I HAD to complain to the dean about all this nonsence, but you can imagine how it ended.
Luckily enough, he had a different teacher next semester, so he passed that English class with no problem.
I had a professor like that for my first semester English as well. Nothing I did was ever right for him. I was young and naïve at the time and, like everyone here, just assumed it was somehow me and I needed to work harder or work it out myself. It was only later as I gained experience that I understood that my grades in that class had nothing to do with my performance and everything to do with he considered me a country bumpkin who didn't belong in the university.
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Originally Posted by lkb0714
Not for nothing but how long ago were you in college? When the dean told you that? Twenty? Thirty years ago? I am always amazed how many people think educational policy is frozen in time. It should go without saying but things are different today. Those anonymous end of semester surveys can make or break a teacher, regardless of tenure. Tenure itself is harder and harder to get. Deans and other administrators routinely force professors to change grades, etc.
You are accepting the changes related to the increase in cost of college since you were there and completely ignoring the changes related to professors and the power of students.
Oh yes, it was millennia ago. Back in the dark ages. And yes I know college has changed. I work with colleges and professors every day. Part of my job is reviewing and approving grants and validating work done under the grant was what the grant was for (it's surprising how many professors propose grant money for A, but actually use the money to work on D; uh no, you can't do that.)
But it seems like the overall assessment of everyone here is parents just need to keep writing blank checks without any means of holding the college accountable.
The problem with the example of the $40K car is that in the case of the education, the car belongs to the student. The parents, or taxpayers, may be paying for it, but it still belongs to the student.
Imagine your 70year old dad wandering into the car dealer and complaining about your car. Do you really think they would take it seriously? Nope, he's not the owner of the car.
For any complaint at college to be taken seriously, it has to come from the student. The parents dilute the seriousness of any complaint. They are not the customer.
But it seems like the overall assessment of everyone here is parents just need to keep writing blank checks without any means of holding the college accountable.
And? If you want some accountability, how about parents being accountable for paying parking tickets when the student can't or won't. With appropriate fees and interest added on of course. Otherwise, you have no say at all in higher ed, so your role here is basically to butt out.
No you don't get it. Everyone seems to be reading this completely different than what I said. I didn't say any of these things. Mine's a senior, been an RA since her freshman year, a member of several student boards, and about to graduate. We never intervened on anything. Basically everything you said above is made up conjecture on your part. And a complete distraction from the topic at hand.
I'm trying to have a discussion on cost vs performance and responsibility at the college level. Why is everyone so eager to give professors a pass on performance?
But your supposition is that your child is too incompetent to manage incompetent professors. Why is that? Why is your nearly graduated child unable to be her own advocate as an ADULT?
Oh yes, it was millennia ago. Back in the dark ages. And yes I know college has changed. I work with colleges and professors every day. Part of my job is reviewing and approving grants and validating work done under the grant was what the grant was for (it's surprising how many professors propose grant money for A, but actually use the money to work on D; uh no, you can't do that.)
You can't claim you know college has changed and then use your anecdotes as evidence.
Quote:
But it seems like the overall assessment of everyone here is parents just need to keep writing blank checks without any means of holding the college accountable.
Who said you have to pay? I haven't seen anyone say that. Can you please reference which post said you have to pay?
What most of us have said is your ADULT child should be managing her own interactions with her professors than running and crying "daddy help me".
You didn't have to complain to the dean to fix the problem, your son just needed to follow the English teacher's format. It is perfectly reasonable for an English teacher to require written material to be in a specific format, many employers have the same expectations. What you should have done is say, "Son, why do you keep turning in work that doesn't follow her format when you know it will get you a failing grade?" to your kid and make it clear that while you feel bad he is struggling the issue is he needs to rethink his choices. It wasn't a "good" essay, no matter what the words were, if it wasn't in the correct format.
And it's a very good lesson to learn.
As a teacher, paperwork provided to the administration was often required to be in a particular format. It didn't matter if the format was one I agreed with; that was the requirement. As a principal, same thing, including reports to the feds about special education. A job OFTEN requires people do things they think should be done differently. That's life.
You didn't have to complain to the dean to fix the problem, your son just needed to follow the English teacher's format. It is perfectly reasonable for an English teacher to require written material to be in a specific format, many employers have the same expectations. What you should have done is say, "Son, why do you keep turning in work that doesn't follow her format when you know it will get you a failing grade?" to your kid and make it clear that while you feel bad he is struggling the issue is he needs to rethink his choices. It wasn't a "good" essay, no matter what the words were, if it wasn't in the correct format.
Heavens yes! (Agreeing with you.) My kids had teachers in elementary school who required homework to be turned in with certain headers.
No, from the get-go, you've been transparently trying to pipe in a ridiculous sham of victim-playing right-wing anti-intellectual propaganda. I'm finding it all rather sickening myself.
"As anyone who has been through college knows, some professors are simply incompetent or complete and total dirtbags."
No, we don't all know that. The vast majority of us does however know BETTER than that.
Well, I can agree with TNFF about that on a very limited basis. Yes, there are professors who are simply incompetent or complete and total dirtbangs. 5 college degrees behind me and I can think of...two.
But your supposition is that your child is too incompetent to manage incompetent professors. Why is that? Why is your nearly graduated child unable to be her own advocate as an ADULT?
That's an interesting perspective. If a young adult can't manage their college lives, someone incompetent person must be responsible for that inability...like the parents who had 17 or 18 years to get it right.
Well, I can agree with TNFF about that on a very limited basis. Yes, there are professors who are simply incompetent or complete and total dirtbangs. 5 college degrees behind me and I can think of...two.
By "very limited basis", you mean that they were outliers, i.e., extraordinary exceptions to the rule. The dishonesty of the OP lies in part in an implication that such are so common as to be a part of the norm.
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