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Old 10-24-2017, 04:15 PM
 
12,639 posts, read 8,857,940 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
I used to feel the same way, I even encouraged my siblings to go to CC than uni. That was a mistake. For many fields the experiences you get at a university cannot be replicated at a CC. For example, my daughter who went to out flagship, got to work on research, publish two papers, and travel abroad presenting that research multiple times before she was a junior. That is not the case at the vast majority of CC students, even at the top ranked one in our county.

Given her field of choice, and the fact she knew she needed a graduate degree it was a much more financially sound decision for her to go to the flagship rather than the local CC.

Absolutely. It's the differences I was referring to earlier as to their resumes and abilities when hiring. Those who've been to a flagship have learned how to do research, have published, and often done things that those who went to CC won't do their whole careers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
....
It is fascinating to me that you think dorm life is la-la land, as you put it. Dorm life is what you make it. My daughter lived in the dorm, instead of at home, for a school that was only 40 miles away. It was 100% worth it. She got a flexible schedule that allowed her to work in her field, she did not have the expenses of a car or traveling, she got to utilize all of the resources (libraries, office hours, etc) any time she needed to without having to commute. She was not a "party" kid, and neither were most of her room mates. Now if your child is not in control of themselves, or you are worried they will become some sort of version of animal house, sure keep them home to mature a few years but don't pretend they are all like that or that there are not distinct advantages to living on campus.
Those are important statements and one reason we insisted our daughter live in the dorm. She's had her own key to the department since freshman year and can be in the lab until after midnight with just a short walk back to the dorm.

 
Old 10-24-2017, 04:19 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,648,459 times
Reputation: 20851
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherTouchOfWhimsy View Post
Do people who say they learned life skills in college think they wouldnt have learned those skills if they hadn't gone? I mean, you do realize that people learn how to live life by living whatever life they lead, right? Some people attend university, some go to CC while working, some travel, some start businesses, many have families, many buy homes, some volunteer, they work in all different types of industries... there's an enormous amount of learning going on outside of classrooms.
College is not for life skills. That person either misspoke or was wrong.
 
Old 10-24-2017, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Florida
7,195 posts, read 5,689,599 times
Reputation: 12337
I'm sure that one could learn life skills in college. It's just not the only (or even necessarily the most common) way to learn said skills.
 
Old 10-24-2017, 04:45 PM
 
11,642 posts, read 23,823,980 times
Reputation: 12273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
The underlying job may not have changed to where the degree is useful or even necessary. It is just an easy cull for a weak labor market.
That may be true but if the hiring person wants a person with a degree the degree becomes necessary.
 
Old 10-24-2017, 05:10 PM
 
28,164 posts, read 25,183,445 times
Reputation: 16664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarallel View Post
I think any rise of anti-college sentiment is, sadly, perfectly in keeping with dominance of Republicans, who always hope to cut education funding, and Trump, who is clearly one of the least educated presidents we've had in a long time. He's bragged about not having read a book since graduation, and has clearly not acquired any of the broader culture we hope for in a college-educated person.

I'm sorry, though, that you put it only in terms of its usefulness or "worth" in getting someone a job. Personally, I think there is great merit in education for its own sake.
As do I but we all gotta eat.
 
Old 10-24-2017, 05:41 PM
 
17,015 posts, read 21,695,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
It seems a lot of kids think college is 4 - 6 more years of partying, and avoiding work, and reality. They take Gender Studies, or Primitive Cultures just to hang out, and party at school. They get no practical skills, and end up working at Starbucks. They also have huge college loan debt as the government keeps giving them money for worthless degrees. Many of these kids would be more successful going to trade school, but no that is too much work.
Best post on this thread!
 
Old 10-24-2017, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Chesapeake Bay
6,046 posts, read 4,793,592 times
Reputation: 3544
Quote:
Originally Posted by psikeyhackr View Post
The books they give you in school are usually theoretical never never land BS.

Like like doing calculations for physics in frictionless vacuums. Like we encounter those all of the time.

Gibilisco's book is more practical. The Art of Electronics is more high brow, for the reader that can get through Gibilisco's,

Electricians and electronic technicians are somewhat different.

These days kids can get Raspberry Pis and robot kits like nothing available when I was in high school. The teachers are behind the times.
Introductory physics is taught at an introductory level. The. Same is true of the introductory calculus courses that one first take.

The never never land BS as you call it forms the basis of what comes later. And what comes later can be very difficult from a conceptual point of view, along with the theoretical aspects and of course the corresponding mathematics involved.
 
Old 10-24-2017, 05:44 PM
 
2,509 posts, read 2,475,029 times
Reputation: 4692
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Making a blanket statement about not taking out loans is as foolish as making a blanket statement saying to take out no loans. Debt is not inherently bad, there is smart debt, and some student loan debt (particularly that which is subsidized) is smart debt.

It is fascinating to me that you think dorm life is la-la land, as you put it. Dorm life is what you make it. My daughter lived in the dorm, instead of at home, for a school that was only 40 miles away. It was 100% worth it. She got a flexible schedule that allowed her to work in her field, she did not have the expenses of a car or traveling, she got to utilize all of the resources (libraries, office hours, etc) any time she needed to without having to commute. She was not a "party" kid, and neither were most of her room mates. Now if your child is not in control of themselves, or you are worried they will become some sort of version of animal house, sure keep them home to mature a few years but don't pretend they are all like that or that there are not distinct advantages to living on campus.
There are a few top-tier colleges that are worth taking on debt for undergrad. The other 95%? Nope. My advice would be to find another way. Debt for professional school (med, law) is a different story

I didn't put down dorm life, I did it myself. I said that young adults who haven't even started their lives yet shoudn't be taking on debt for it, nor should parents be draining their home equity or cutting back on their retirement savings for it. JMO
 
Old 10-24-2017, 06:21 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,648,459 times
Reputation: 20851
Quote:
Originally Posted by bookspage View Post
There are a few top-tier colleges that are worth taking on debt for undergrad. The other 95%? Nope. My advice would be to find another way. Debt for professional school (med, law) is a different story

I didn't put down dorm life, I did it myself. I said that young adults who haven't even started their lives yet shoudn't be taking on debt for it, nor should parents be draining their home equity or cutting back on their retirement savings for it. JMO
Ahhh, completely made up statistics. How refreshing. And it is interesting to play the "just my opinion" card after stating your opinion as fact several times prior.

The idea that you can give such blanket advice as in this post and the prior is bizarre. The typical college student is taking on about $28K in debt for an undergraduate degree. For the typical millennial, they will make about $17K more a year than their peers without a degree. That means within just a handful of year the average debt carrying college grad is in the green.

Also you need to look at the realities of community college. Community college students are slightly less likely to graduate than their uni peers, even over 6 years, even when they attend full time.

https://ticas.org/posd/state-state-data-2015
https://www.usnews.com/news/articles...l-grads-widens
https://www.insidehighered.com/quick...ompletion-data
 
Old 10-24-2017, 07:11 PM
 
24,521 posts, read 18,026,656 times
Reputation: 40208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weichert View Post
Introductory physics is taught at an introductory level. The. Same is true of the introductory calculus courses that one first take.

The never never land BS as you call it forms the basis of what comes later. And what comes later can be very difficult from a conceptual point of view, along with the theoretical aspects and of course the corresponding mathematics involved.
This is total nonsense. My physics courses had real math in them. A community college or 3rd tier state school physics course might have high school algebra and half the class will struggle with even that basic math skill. Quantum mechanics had probability theory as a prerequisite math course. You had to be pretty good at integral calculus to handle the field theory course. Even the first Newtonian physics course I took had differental equations in it.

Somebody refuting this kind of needs to name the college and provide a link to the syllabus and the textbook. That's not what a top-50 university physics curriculum looks like. Universities also offer survey courses in the sciences with little math in them but those aren't going to open any doors for you if you think you're going to be seeking high tech employment. Real STEM courses at top universities are hard.
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