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Location: San Ramon, Seattle, Anchorage, Reykjavik
2,254 posts, read 2,734,754 times
Reputation: 3203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merjolie8
I don't remember any of my classes to have had any political content at all. I don't even know the political affiliation of the professors. It was never an issue that was discussed in class.
Still isn't an issue today. However, there are a lot of people who see everything as political and some lefty plot.
I went to college 20 years ago but I couldn't in good faith recommend many kids to go today. Is it worth getting yourself into $100k in debt to then leave and enter a economy where jobs above min wage are becoming scarcer and scarcer? If you are on track to become a doctor or lawyer then maybe but the average kid that's going to just get a 4 year liberal arts degree is probably going to be working for 20 years to pay it off at the expense of owning a home or investing for retirement.
After all these pages I think we can conclude there are basically two schools of thought.
a. One view (which I subscribe to) it that college is a valuable education, but isn't for everyone. Some/many would be better served by learning a trade and others are better served by going to college. I think our schools should do a better job of tracking kids toward the most appropriate before they spend money on the wrong path.
b. The other view is essentially that college is a (take your pick) commie plot/government interference/business indoctrination meaning it's a waste of time and money.
There is a third group that seems to believe it costs a hundred grand or more to get a degree. It's just not true. For residents, living at home and commuting to class, public city and state universities are a maximum total of $30K for tuition, fees and books for a 4 year degree. If you attend community college for the first year or two then transfer, you pay even less. People who quote large tuitions are speaking of going away to a private college and paying for tuition, travel, and room and board. It's just not necessary or required.
Living at home and commuting to class a person can work part time 15 hours a week during the school year and full time 40 hours a week in the summer. At minimum wage of $7.50 an hour that's about $7500 in income per year, which would cover almost all of the costs of the education.
If necessary a person could get student loans if needed to cover what they can't earn. They should come out in 4 years with a degree and at most $10k in student loans, which they can pay off over 10 years, or quicker after they secure full time employment.
I did this. My son did this. My Mom paid my first semester tuition and books at a state university and I handled the rest. I paid my son's first semester tuition and books at a city university and he took care of the rest. We both graduated in 4 years while working part time during the school year and full time in the summers. We both wanted to get a college degree and lack of money was no impediment for either of us.
My son's 4 year bachelors degree cost a total of $20K. My 4 year bachelor's degree cost a total of about $3K. I graduated in 1968, he graduated in 1999. Given inflation, the real dollar equivalent of the cost of our educations were just about equal, and would be today as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff
After all these pages I think we can conclude there are basically two schools of thought.
a. One view (which I subscribe to) it that college is a valuable education, but isn't for everyone. Some/many would be better served by learning a trade and others are better served by going to college. I think our schools should do a better job of tracking kids toward the most appropriate before they spend money on the wrong path.
b. The other view is essentially that college is a (take your pick) commie plot/government interference/business indoctrination meaning it's a waste of time and money.
There is a third group that seems to believe it costs a hundred grand or more to get a degree. It's just not true. For residents, living at home and commuting to class, public city and state universities are a maximum total of $30K for tuition, fees and books for a 4 year degree. If you attend community college for the first year or two then transfer, you pay even less. People who quote large tuitions are speaking of going away to a private college and paying for tuition, travel, and room and board. It's just not necessary or required.
Living at home and commuting to class a person can work part time 15 hours a week during the school year and full time 40 hours a week in the summer. At minimum wage of $7.50 an hour that's about $7500 in income per year, which would cover almost all of the costs of the education.
If necessary a person could get student loans if needed to cover what they can't earn. They should come out in 4 years with a degree and at most $10k in student loans, which they can pay off over 10 years, or quicker after they secure full time employment.
I did this. My son did this. My Mom paid my first semester tuition and books at a state university and I handled the rest. I paid my son's first semester tuition and books at a city university and he took care of the rest. We both graduated in 4 years while working part time during the school year and full time in the summers. We both wanted to get a college degree and lack of money was no impediment for either of us.
My son's 4 year bachelors degree cost a total of $20K. My 4 year bachelor's degree cost a total of about $3K. I graduated in 1968, he graduated in 1999. Given inflation, the real dollar equivalent of the cost of our educations were just about equal, and would be today as well.
Yes...my degree (150+ credits, an AAS and BA in different areas) cost $25k. I did highschool credits, community college, state school and then later a regionally accredited online school with several test out exams.
My ACT score was decent, I was in the top 10 of my HS class, volunteered with the special needs kids, played piano, took Chinese, all while working full-time as soon as I was 16. I finished college with a 4.0. My grandparents paid for most of it, and said, "take your pick," but I chose to save them money and work full-time as well. I didn't apply for scholarships however, because I thought it would be taking from those who needed it.
Many people get degrees without massive debt. It is doable.
This is so true and it is a crying shame. Vocational school is be very low to no cost.
I am glad to see this finally happening. It is absolutely ridiculous that we try to push every child into college. Jobs that require skilled laborers struggle to find people but we have people with master's degrees working behind the counter at McDonald's because it is all they could find after they have been unemployed for months looking for the job they were supposed to be able to have. My nephew who took a 9 month training course and a 2 year apprenticeship, which he was paid while doing, makes more than most of cousins with their college degrees. It took him a week to find a job and start after he finished his vocational program, it took them months. He also has no student loans, so he has far more discretionary money. But the most important aspect of this whole thing is that he simply wasn't an academically inclined kid, he enjoyed working with his hands.
Yes, a percentage of people do belong in college, and we do need to make sure qualified motivated students are not shut out, but pushing everyone to go has been a terrible policy. It has resulted in 1) a generation of young people starting out life in debt, 2) lowering of college admittance standards, 3) lowering of university level academic standards, 5) the value of a college degree being lower to the former value of a high school diploma, 6) the delay in young people assuming adult responsibilities, 7) smaller pools of skilled laborers, 8) public K-12 schools focusing on "college prep" curriculum at the expense of basic academic skills mastery, 9) inflated college tutition, 10) less resources to fund college education for those most likely to succeed, and 11) a large number of young adults who feel they are failures or society failed them because "everyone should be able to get a college degree and a good job" and they either couldn't finish college or the promised good job never materialized.
I am happy with this movement provided it has an equal movement towards a tiered educational system that includes vocational education along the lines of the one in Germany.
17 pages? This thread should have ended with this post.
My kids have said they don't want to go into crazy debt to get a degree. I tell them they don't have to, but I think they listen to everyone but me. My mother is in the "colleges & college professors are bent on teaching liberal agendas" camp. I've told her that my time in education (last 5 years) has not been politically influenced. Sure I can tell if sometimes I have liberal professors, but they haven't pushed their views on anyone by any means, and some go out of their way to make it clear they don't want to espouse any political beliefs either way.
With my mom, she called me one day before I went back to school to say how proud she was of me for my work ethic (I had my full time Corp job & a part time retail job). When I started school...crickets. Anytime I mentioned something about school..."oh." Her political/higher education views came out eventually. This attitude from some people contributes to the anti-college sentiment.
I'm a retired college counselor and I saw even wealthy families fall into this trap. I never understood it. To me, putting away a little each month for college was just something my husband and I did from the time our kids were born. But, then, we both saw the difference that college made in our own lives, so we never second guessed that we wanted to help our own children have the same wonderful benefits of college.
<SNIP>
It is actually perfectly rational to not fund children’s college educations.
When the time for college arrives, there are multiple sources of funding available for college. However, when the time for retirement arrives, if Social Security plus savings isn’t sufficient, there are generally no other sources of retirement funding available.
If one hasn’t FULLY FUNDED their retirement, they have no business saving for college for their children.
What I don't understand, and i'm saying this with a foreign perspective is;
How did you end up with more or less openly political universities?
If I'd try to pull some of that snowflake **** I see on youtube in one of my engineering classes the professor would probably laugh at me and kick me out...
The openly political issue is a function of academic freedom, a near sacrosanct issue in American Universities (for professors).
The snowflake issue is completely under the control of the professor. If the professor allows it, it can exist. If the professor doesn’t allow it, it is shut down immediately.
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