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Old 04-08-2018, 04:57 PM
 
7,489 posts, read 4,951,465 times
Reputation: 8031

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgbwc View Post
I’m surprised that surprises you.
The teachers, assuming that they have completed teaching degrees specializing in either elementary or core secondary subjects, should indeed strike.

 
Old 04-08-2018, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
10,065 posts, read 7,232,760 times
Reputation: 17146
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgbwc View Post
tnff compared school staffing today to schools of old. When I look at staffing changes in our schools and increased cost drivers, the positions in bold are ones that have been added. That’s not to say they aren’t needed.
That's a good point. One of the reasons U.S. education is so expensive is that the education system is doing for special ed what the health care system does in most other advanced democracies.

When I got enough college hours I started subbing as a side gig. I was amazed when I subbed for the first time how much support special ed kids get. One kid who is anything more than moderate on the special ed spectrum has a team of 2 or 3 people. I was often the sub for one of the subordinate special ed TA's... there were a lot of them so that was one of the easiest sub gigs to get any given day. My job was basically to accompany the kid everywhere & make sure he didn't spaz out on the other kids. I'm not saying it's bad to have that support, but it's expensive.

People forget about that.

Last edited by redguard57; 04-08-2018 at 05:12 PM..
 
Old 04-08-2018, 05:03 PM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,126 posts, read 16,149,450 times
Reputation: 28335
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgbwc View Post
tnff compared school staffing today to schools of old. When I look at staffing changes in our schools and increased cost drivers, the positions in bold are ones that have been added. That’s not to say they aren’t needed.
I would say the following have been the added ones:
  • Parent/community liaison - 1
  • Testing coordinator/Instructional coach - 1
  • Technology manager - .5
  • Technology teacher - 1
  • Technology lab aide - 1
  • Reading intervention specialist - 1
  • Math intervention specialist - 1
  • ESOL teachers - 6.5
  • Special ed teachers/collaborative - 4
  • Special ed teacher/EBD - 1
  • Special ed/EBD TA - 1
  • Special ed teacher/autism unit - 1
  • Special ed/autism unit TA - 3
  • One-on-one aides - 3
  • Gifted teacher - 1
That is 27 jobs - 17.5 which are teachers, leaving an addition of 9.5 paraprofessional jobs. By the time benefits are factored in this is at least a $1-1.25M extra expense per year over the “old school” levels. This is one school with around 500 kids, or between $1,000-2,000 per child, per year.
__________________
When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.Moderator - Diabetes and Kentucky (including Lexington & Louisville)
 
Old 04-08-2018, 05:54 PM
 
724 posts, read 593,060 times
Reputation: 550
Too me, having been raised in the southern/Midwest, I would like some one to explain to me how in gods name you could spend so much taxpayer money on school sports. I mean, professional grade equipment, huge stadiums, team doctors, transportation. Nobody blinks an eye when we discuss how money for schools is used, yet in places like Oklahoma, team sports are given near religious status. Nobody seems to be talking about how most children, like 99.9999% of them will never get paid to play sports. Yet the flag waving, sanitized versions of warfare (ie football) that are actually seriously injuring children have immense budgets, meanwhile the 30yo text books that a person with a mathematics degree tapped together with scotch that they bought out of pocket gets paid 40,000 a year. We are the only first world country (an assumption we can barely hold onto btw) that has this system at our public schools.
 
Old 04-08-2018, 08:11 PM
 
12,836 posts, read 9,037,151 times
Reputation: 34894
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I simply don't believe the bolded.

Your numbers are?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
In their defense, it may depend on their definition of support staff. I have had people outside of education who classify school employees in two categories: classroom teacher and not classroom teachers.

Based on that definition, at my neighborhood elemtary school:

...
This doesn’t include bus drivers and any district people floating in and out. Admittedly 20.5 of those people listed as “not teacher” are actually teachers in the school, making it 48.5 teachers to 43.5, but you can see why someone may think administration/support staff outnumber teachers.
Thank you for a perfect illustration. You are spot on with the definition. I very much appreciate your numbers. As an FYI for my kids school district, several of those, such as music, are shared resources. One spread across multiple schools, so they'd be counted as fractional resources. What's also interesting in comparison to historical, is my elementary school, the assistant principal was actually an additional duty for one of the first grade teachers. There was only one aide and she did the secretary as an additional duty.
 
Old 04-08-2018, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,770 posts, read 24,277,952 times
Reputation: 32913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
I would say the following have been the added ones:
  • Parent/community liaison - 1
  • Testing coordinator/Instructional coach - 1
  • Technology manager - .5
  • Technology teacher - 1
  • Technology lab aide - 1
  • Reading intervention specialist - 1
  • Math intervention specialist - 1
  • ESOL teachers - 6.5
  • Special ed teachers/collaborative - 4
  • Special ed teacher/EBD - 1
  • Special ed/EBD TA - 1
  • Special ed teacher/autism unit - 1
  • Special ed/autism unit TA - 3
  • One-on-one aides - 3
  • Gifted teacher - 1
That is 27 jobs - 17.5 which are teachers, leaving an addition of 9.5 paraprofessional jobs. By the time benefits are factored in this is at least a $1-1.25M extra expense per year over the “old school” levels. This is one school with around 500 kids, or between $1,000-2,000 per child, per year.
However, not all schools have those positions. I highlighted the ones we didn't have.
 
Old 04-08-2018, 09:21 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,770 posts, read 24,277,952 times
Reputation: 32913
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Your numbers are?



...
Aside from classroom teachers we had the following:

7 part-time cafeteria workers (are you planning on eliminating the school lunch program?)
4 custodians (and part of that crew was needed because of the recreation program at night, which was not a part of the school system)
1 principal, 2 vice-principals, 1 guidance director who also acted as a counselor)
3 special ed aides who spent their days working only with students, some years a fourth one
1 technology aide
2 librarians who, in addition to reviewing and ordering books, worked with teachers to plan and teach lessons
1 special ed chair to manage all the federally required paperwork
1 bookkeeper
A half-time attendance secretary (during the regular school year)
3 other secretaries during the regular school year with a reduced staffing in summers (1.5 for the main office, 1 for the guidance office, 1 for the library)

If I would have been allowed to, I would have eliminated one librarian.

Okay. Your turn. Please tell us the school staff you hired.
 
Old 04-08-2018, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Chesapeake Bay
6,046 posts, read 4,815,358 times
Reputation: 3544
Preposterous. Fire the following, pure overhead.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
Based on that definition, at my neighborhood elemtary school:


Not classroom teachers:
  • [
  • Bookkeeper - 1
  • Attendance clerk - 1
  • Parent/community liaison - 1
  • Counselor - 1
  • Testing coordinator/Instructional coach - 1
  • Technology manager - .5
  • Technology teacher - 1
  • Technology lab aide - 1
  • Reading intervention specialist - 1
  • Math intervention specialist - 1
  • ESOL teachers - 6.5
  • Special ed teachers/collaborative - 4
  • Special ed teacher/EBD - 1
  • Special ed/EBD TA - 1
  • Special ed teacher/autism unit - 1
  • Special ed/autism unit TA - 3
  • One-on-one aides - 3
  • Gifted teacher - 1-
  • Kindergarten aides - 5
  • Regular education aides - 8
    • Total —- 43
[/indent].
 
Old 04-09-2018, 12:44 AM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
10,065 posts, read 7,232,760 times
Reputation: 17146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weichert View Post
Preposterous. Fire the following, pure overhead.
So you'd fire the entire special ed department?.

I actually don't think that would be legal. I'm pretty sure special ed is a mandate in most states.
 
Old 04-09-2018, 12:53 AM
 
8,924 posts, read 5,623,706 times
Reputation: 12560
Teachers deserve better pay. Let’s face it, they are teaching YOUR kids. They deserve more money. We have some of the best politicians money can buy. Throw the teachers a bone....
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