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If you were treated badly by teachers then you probably weren’t gifted in their eyes.
Even gifted students in low income schools, sometimes subjected to teasing/bullying by fellow classmates, have access or qualify for countless college scholarships in high school.
Look no further than the several Black students who got accepted to every Ivy League school.
This post so classically demonstrates the conflation of "gifted" and "high-achieving." There is a lot of misunderstanding about this out there.
This is something I've pondered from time to time and it came up again today reading the local paper. This country in general seems to have an active dislike of those who are academically gifted. We constantly find ways to put them down, both large and small. But with athletics, it's different. As a culture we admire athletic prowess. We shower adulation and money down on them. Even at the lowest level of sport, the kid who is just a tiny bit stronger or faster gets all the attention.
I know this dichotomy is real having experienced myself and with my kids. But I can't explain it, nor even understand it. And the more I read about it, the less it makes sense. Our schools put effort into supporting and bringing the lowest performers up to the minimum, but pretty much ignore the gifted assuming they will just be fine on their own. An example from my own schooling is being berated by the teacher for reading ahead "how are you going to learn to read if you don't keep the place!!!" when I already knew how to read, as evidenced by the fact I was a couple chapters ahead while the class was stuck on one paragraph.
Sorry for the stream of consciousness, it just kind of flowed out after reading the paper this morning.
In my high school, we seemed to put a bit more emphasis on academics than athleticism. However, both were still recognized. Indeed, those who managed to make it to some top tiered school like Harvard, MIT, or U. Penn got a much heartier congratulations than those that went to public schools, and that more so than community colleges or places not-so-much accredited.
On a college level, public universities are an interesting "businesses", as while they're first and foremost institutions of learning and research, they still need to build rock climbing walls, rec. centers, etc. to attract new students (IOW, having an accredited program isn't enough when competing institutions are applying their own "polish" and "sweeteners"), while the sports programs are what rake in lots of the money.
Institutions with classes and programs for the gifted to thrive would be much more receptive, I'd imagine, to a student who in one way or another was a prodigy.
Likewise, schools with football teams would be much more receptive to a student who was a talented football player, than schools who only had baseball and soccer.
I don't agree with this at all. This country does not have an active dislike of those who are academically gifted; I think it is the opposite of what you're saying. Are you complaining that newspapers don't publish all conference and all-state lists of gifted students?
....
I think if you step outside academia and just observe the general public over time you'll start to put together the same picture that many of us have -- even if not an active dislike, there is most certainly a common negative theme. Think for example of how often you'll hear some version of "He may have a lot of book learning, but he ain't got no common sense." Or how many threads on this forum put down education. And I'm no complaining about newspapers. Rather I'm observing that is yet another example of where society celebrates even minor athletic accomplishments. Is signing to play a sport at the local community college really a feat worthy of an article and photo spread? Really? If it is, then why is a student going to Yale not? Why is a perfect score on ACT not? Why are multiple kids from the same graduating class going to a service academy not?
It's an overall pattern both within and outside education that doesn't serve the needs of our best students. And that's the real issue with all this. It's not about individual recognition, but about a general lack of valuing of education within society.
Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74
Do you also distance yourself from parents who want to give a description of their child's athletic prowess and details of what they achieved in every sporting event they participate in?
Although personally, I've never met a single person who talked constantly about their child's high IQ. I have no idea what my son's IQ even is.
I think if you step outside academia and just observe the general public over time you'll start to put together the same picture that many of us have -- even if not an active dislike, there is most certainly a common negative theme. Think for example of how often you'll hear some version of "He may have a lot of book learning, but he ain't got no common sense." Or how many threads on this forum put down education. And I'm no complaining about newspapers. Rather I'm observing that is yet another example of where society celebrates even minor athletic accomplishments. Is signing to play a sport at the local community college really a feat worthy of an article and photo spread? Really? If it is, then why is a student going to Yale not? Why is a perfect score on ACT not? Why are multiple kids from the same graduating class going to a service academy not?
It's an overall pattern both within and outside education that doesn't serve the needs of our best students. And that's the real issue with all this. It's not about individual recognition, but about a general lack of valuing of education within society.
Agree.
I'm sure villageidiot1 spends a lot of time outside of academia. After all, he is a member of society. And yes, I've heard those things, more here on CD than IRL. I've seen the threads and posts about how college is a waste of time, yada, yada, and complained about it.
villageidiot1 is telling you it doesn't seem to be going on much inside the schools.
My local papers (one very local weekly and one daily from a bigger city) do publish articles about perfect SATs, stuff like that. They also do articles about kids signing to play college sports. I couldn't swear to it, but I think I've seen articles about kids getting appointed to the service academies as well, not that that's so much of an academic achievement as it is political. My daily paper has a special column every Sunday where they interview kids in school, from elementary on up, about school, not sports. I can't pull one up right now because it's summer. There was an article just recently (which I can't seem to bring up on the website) about a student competing in the National History Day competition in DC.
As for parents not talking about their kids academic achievements, my experience has been way different than yours and emm74's. Starting before preschool, parents talk about what their kids are "doing" and how brilliant they are. They're at the top of their developmental milestones for this, that, the other. By preschool some are supposedly "reading", though often it's just memorization of a favorite book. In ele school, everyone seemingly thinks their kids are TAG (Talented and Gifted) material. Some kids are just so "bored" in school because they're so beyond the other kids, and even the teacher sometimes! (Not to say some kids don't have higher IQs than some teachers, but still. . .) By late elementary school, they need to be placed in the higher math groups, and by 5th grade need to go to the middle school for math classes. In middle school, they need to be taking high school courses, and by HS, college courses, AP courses, and other honors classes. Then we have to hear about how many colleges they've been accepted to, how much scholarship money they've gotten and so forth.
Responding to myself. Too funny, I went to another thread, and just saw this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist
And some of these kids are just bored because they are smarter than their teachers. I encounter teachers all the time who cannot spell or use bad grammar. I recently took a college class, on line, where the teacher's grammar and spelling was so poor, he was hard to understand. And he had a doctorate.
Katarina your sarcasm toward gifted students and their parents is noted. But I do feel compelled to note you have a misconception toward service academy appointments. While some may be due to politics the reality is the competition for those appointments is stiff. Those who make it are well rounded academically, athletically, in the community, and in other ways. They may not be the best at any one thing but have the total package. It is a misunderstanding to assume because appointments are made by politicians that those are automatically chosen. Most who go have no political conbection.
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
13,075 posts, read 7,515,583 times
Reputation: 9798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt
I'm sure villageidiot1 spends a lot of time outside of academia. After all, he is a member of society. And yes, I've heard those things, more here on CD than IRL. I've seen the threads and posts about how college is a waste of time, yada, yada, and complained about it.
[...snip, yada stufff]
By late elementary school, they need to be placed in the higher math groups, and by 5th grade need to go to the middle school for math classes. In middle school, they need to be taking high school courses, and by HS, college courses, AP courses, and other honors classes. Then we have to hear about how many colleges they've been accepted to, how much scholarship money they've gotten and so forth.
Well, KT, If we can't talk about puffing up our kids, then can destroy someone's else kid
This is something I've pondered from time to time and it came up again today reading the local paper. This country in general seems to have an active dislike of those who are academically gifted. We constantly find ways to put them down, both large and small. But with athletics, it's different. As a culture we admire athletic prowess. We shower adulation and money down on them. Even at the lowest level of sport, the kid who is just a tiny bit stronger or faster gets all the attention.
I know this dichotomy is real having experienced myself and with my kids. But I can't explain it, nor even understand it. And the more I read about it, the less it makes sense. Our schools put effort into supporting and bringing the lowest performers up to the minimum, but pretty much ignore the gifted assuming they will just be fine on their own. An example from my own schooling is being berated by the teacher for reading ahead "how are you going to learn to read if you don't keep the place!!!" when I already knew how to read, as evidenced by the fact I was a couple chapters ahead while the class was stuck on one paragraph.
Sorry for the stream of consciousness, it just kind of flowed out after reading the paper this morning.
You just highlighted second biggest reason for our academic decline, first is making a mockery of teaching profession with low hiring standards and wages. Not only people feel envious of gifted and high acchieving students but actively try to put them at a disadvantage. If a student is doing well, people assume either he/she is a nerd/geek with no other talents/social skills, spends every waking hour in tution/prep centers, has strict affluent parents or something like that. While hard working dedicated athletes are respected, hard working dedicated academics are mocked. In college admissions, value of merit is going down by the year.
We are a nation who celebrates and rewards athletes and entertainers but shuns people in intellectual or scientific pursuits. I think its part jealousy and part stupidity. Diffrent students have different strengths and all should be nourshied and celebrated but future of human race requires us to trasure gifted minds and help them use their intellect to make lives better for all. There is no shame in accepting that not all humans have identical IQ and lowering admissions/reward standards is dangerous social engineering.
I think by valuing, rewarding, publicizing and offering celebrity status to gifted students, teachers, economists, researchers, scientists etc who are doung things way more valuable compared to ones who can sing, hit balls, run for office, act or speak in front of camera. If kids see Kim Kardashian, J Zee, Stephen Colbert, Donald Trump or Tiger Woods, Tony Romo getting better tratment than they'll aspire to be that, time to value accomplished unsung heroes in all fields.
Last edited by UnfairPark; 07-12-2018 at 10:46 AM..
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