Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Now I was the principal of a middle school, not a high school. But, going along with what you wrote, do you (as in other readers) realize that how many sections I put in the schedule of shop versus art, or home ec versus music was dependent on how many students signed up for those classes. We didn't try to push students out of shop and into fine arts. Parents did that. Our course offerings were dependent on demand. There were years we offered French, Spanish and Latin. And there were years Latin was dropped from our course offerings. It just depended on how many kids signed up for Latin. Most years we had enough demand for two full time shop teachers, but sometimes their enrollment dropped because fewer kids signed up, and I would have to reduce staffing in that area. A couple years later, enrollment might jump...and I'd have to scramble to get back a few periods of shop.
I'll be you and I agree on this, too -- in our society today there has been a decrease in how a part of the population values education...and that devaluation is on the...
Only 30 percent of people ever get bachelor's degrees. That went up about 3% for Millennials. It's expected to go back down with succeeding generations.
You were a high school principal, yet you have no plan to deal with that fact.
When I was a school principal, I had to hire a number non-professional positions from custodian to secretary. And in this case I'm putting secretary in the category because how low the pay was. All other things being relatively equal, I always hired the applicant with the highest level of education because getting a college education shows some initiative.
When I hire an admin, I hire an admin with training appropriate to the admin duties. I need someone who knows how to do an admin job, not someone who thinks their education qualifies them for it but knows nothing of how an office functions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt
High schools have not adopted an "everyone must go to college" philosophy. For as many times as I have asked, no one has ever shown proof that is true. I suppose that some very small high schools, either private or in very rural areas, only have one curriculum because there aren't enough students to offer lots of options, though that too is changing with online courses. I would like to see the course offerings of any high school >500 kids (about 125 per class level) that only offers college prep.
Katarina, I have shown you. Specific answers to this specific question. Right from our state's education plans, and quotes from our governor. You need to reread those threads. I'll give you one more, out of our local public high school:
"All students will pursue a focused program of study preparing them for post secondary study."
Seems pretty explicit what the focus is, even though in reality most students won't go to college.
Only 30 percent of people ever get bachelor's degrees. That went up about 3% for Millennials. It's expected to go back down with succeeding generations.
You were a high school principal, yet you have no plan to deal with that fact.
When I hire an admin, I hire an admin with training appropriate to the admin duties. I need someone who knows how to do an admin job, not someone who thinks their education qualifies them for it but knows nothing of how an office functions.
Katarina, I have shown you. Specific answers to this specific question. Right from our state's education plans, and quotes from our governor. You need to reread those threads. I'll give you one more, out of our local public high school:
"All students will pursue a focused program of study preparing them for post secondary study."
Seems pretty explicit what the focus is, even though in reality most students won't go to college.
'post secondary study". That doesn't mean a 4 year college.
And part of the reason for that is so as not to close doors for the future.
Only 30 percent of people ever get bachelor's degrees. That went up about 3% for Millennials. It's expected to go back down with succeeding generations.
You have no plan to deal with that fact.
You don't even know why it happens.
When I graduated in 1970, only 8.2% of women had a college degree. In 2017, 34.6% did. The numbers have gone steadily up. I don't know where you get that "(it's) expected to go back down with succeeding generations". Do you have any documentation for that? https://www.statista.com/statistics/...her-by-gender/ "Compared to 1940, more than 8 times more women have attended college and nearly 6 times more men have in 2017."
Why would I have to have a plan to "deal with that fact"? I'm retired, and I never was an educator. Why get so personal, Ralph?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk
Only 30 percent of people ever get bachelor's degrees. That went up about 3% for Millennials. It's expected to go back down with succeeding generations.
You were a high school principal, yet you have no plan to deal with that fact.
You don't even know why it happens.
When I graduated in 1970, only 8.2% of women had a college degree. In 2017, 34.6% did. The numbers have gone steadily up. I don't know where you get that "(it's) expected to go back down with succeeding generations". Do you have any documentation for that?
Why would phetaroi have to have a plan to "deal with that fact"? Why get so personal, Ralph?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff
When I hire an admin, I hire an admin with training appropriate to the admin duties. I need someone who knows how to do an admin job, not someone who thinks their education qualifies them for it but knows nothing of how an office functions.
Katarina, I have shown you. Specific answers to this specific question. Right from our state's education plans, and quotes from our governor. You need to reread those threads. I'll give you one more, out of our local public high school:
"All students will pursue a focused program of study preparing them for post secondary study."
Seems pretty explicit what the focus is, even though in reality most students won't go to college.
When you hire an admin fresh into the work force, whether degreed or not, I'm willing to bet s/he doesn't know how an office functions. When I first went to work in a doctor's office, late in my career, I did not know how a doctor's office functioned, but I knew nursing and I was intelligent enough to pick up on the office policies pretty quickly.
What phetaroi said, below. As for "most students won't go to college" here's what the BLS says about that: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/hsgec.nr0.htm "In October 2017, 66.7 percent of 2017 high school graduates age 16 to 24 were enrolled in colleges or universities, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today."
And that's just colleges and universities. It doesn't even count these vaunted trade schools you guys are always talking about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
'post secondary study". That doesn't mean a 4 year college.
And part of the reason for that is so as not to close doors for the future.
When I graduated in 1970, only 8.2% of women had a college degree. In 2017, 34.6% did. The numbers have gone steadily up. I don't know where you get that "(it's) expected to go back down with succeeding generations". Do you have any documentation for that? https://www.statista.com/statistics/...her-by-gender/ "Compared to 1940, more than 8 times more women have attended college and nearly 6 times more men have in 2017."
Why would I have to have a plan to "deal with that fact"? I'm retired, and I never was an educator. Why get so personal, Ralph?
Because you won't deal with the fact.
Okay, so the percentage of women has gone up. So has the percentage of blacks. OTOH, the percentage of white males has gone down.
The overall percentage: 30% of Americans has remained steady since the GI Bill was passed. When we're talking about public policy on education, we can't just look at our own favorite group and say, "Welp, we're doin' okay!"
Quote:
When I graduated in 1970, only 8.2% of women had a college degree. In 2017, 34.6% did. The numbers have gone steadily up. I don't know where you get that "(it's) expected to go back down with succeeding generations". Do you have any documentation for that?
Why would phetaroi have to have a plan to "deal with that fact"? Why get so personal, Ralph?
Because you won't respond to the fact that 70% of kids aren't being sufficiently served by the education industry. You still repeat "get-arounds" like looking at only part of the numbers, like only the numbers of women, because that number looks good.
Quote:
When you hire an admin fresh into the work force, whether degreed or not, I'm willing to bet s/he doesn't know how an office functions. When I first went to work in a doctor's office, late in my career, I did not know how a doctor's office functioned, but I knew nursing and I was intelligent enough to pick up on the office policies pretty quickly.
What phetaroi said, below. As for "most students won't go to college" here's what the BLS says about that: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/hsgec.nr0.htm "In October 2017, 66.7 percent of 2017 high school graduates age 16 to 24 were enrolled in colleges or universities, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today."
And that's just colleges and universities. It doesn't even count these vaunted trade schools you guys are always talking about.
Strawman. Nobody said "most students won't go to college."
What's been said is "most students won't get a bachelor's degree."
And you know that.
So 66.7% will start college, 30% will actually get a bachelor's degree.
That overall "enrolled in colleges" likely includes those getting associates degrees, so I won't say that the 33.7 percent that start and don't get a bachelor's degree have gotten in debt for nothing.
But I know too many who go into college because that's the only viable option anyone has ever given them, and waste a lot of money to discover that their watered-down college prep high school curriculum was a travesty, or discover that they simply aren't cut out for an academic life.
So they've wasted time and money, maybe have become discouraged, when they could have been productive from the start.
Some of you are bassackwards. The reasons employers can demand more of an education is that there are more people with the higher education. So why wouldn't the average employer want to higher the MOST qualified job applicants.
Because having a degree doesn't make you most qualified. Having real world experience, IMO, is a much better predictor of successful employee productivity than a degree. HR departments are incredibly short sighted when it comes to this filter in the application process. If I can find someone with years of on the job experience with skills that could be translated to what I need for my company, why on earth would I simply rely on a degree in the same area?
This. Thank you. Bingo. Yahtzee. Here's a simple clue folks, more people have a degree because of this thing called... The Internet.
Anyone with internet access can take online college courses from an accredited college and be educated.
So employers will require their employees to have a bachelors just to be qualified for the job. Hell pretty soon they'll require you to have a masters for these entry jobs.
This is what happens when everyone has access to a bachelors degree.
High school diploma, hell, that might as well be used as toilet paper. It's the bare minimal requirement to prove you're not totally worthless to society, even then, most high schools don't prepare you for college because they're so damn bad.
Cool. You paying the exorbitant tuition for those online college courses?
When I was a school principal, I had to hire a number non-professional positions from custodian to secretary. And in this case I'm putting secretary in the category because how low the pay was. All other things being relatively equal, I always hired the applicant with the highest level of education because getting a college education shows some initiative.
Nonsense.
Having a solid work history, a demonstrated ability to perform, and references to show that you were an asset to your employer all means a lot more than having a college education.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
