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I'm 32; in 1994 I entered the 4th grade at a private school that had foreign language instruction (on a daily basis) from K-8. So, when I entered, I was a bit behind most of my classmates (the ones who'd been at the school since kindergarten), but I caught up rather quickly. I ended up taking Spanish from 4th through 11th grades. The verdict? Useless, because of the manner of teaching--all memorization, no actual emphasis on developing speaking skills/trying to promote eventual fluency. In both grade school and high school, I had one native Spanish speaker in my Spanish classes (a Colombia native in grade school; a Venezuela native in HS), and both of these guys (both being friends of mine through soccer) were essentially average students in the class--I'm sure lack of effort had something/a lot to do with it, but they'd usually get lower grades than me. And yet, they'd carry on entire conversations with the teacher when they felt like it. Meanwhile I was getting grades in the mid-high 90s all throughout and I could barely handle more than 'Hola! Como estas?' conversationally. Until the method of instruction is modified, I'll have little faith in foreign language instruction in the school setting. You did hint at a change in your OP, but I'm talking overhaul rather than minor change. I reserve the right to change my mind if I learn that present-day high schoolers are emerging as bilingual, but I think I'd already have heard about such a revolutionary pedagogical development had it already occurred.
(edit to add that this school was located in Buffalo; the fact that I happened to have a South American presence (however minor) in my classes throughout was a bit of a statistical fluke...to this day, my Venezuelan HS friend is the only person I've ever met from Venezuela)
To get to the level you want, you have to "go there." You have to go the country and surround yourself with the language. Hear it, speak it, and read it 24/7.
And that is not easy to do for most of the country.
I studied German in high school and college and then on my own here and there. I did a grad year in Germany, but took two immersion courses which got me over a lot of humps (there is always another). I read the local newspaper every day and kept the tv on all the time. I became pretty good at it.
20 years later and I am back to where I was in college because I do not use it and it is not like I can just run over to Germany for the weekend like folks in Belgium, Holland, etc can do.
I think language instruction a fine thing, but we have to be realistic about it. I suspect you would have progressed by leaps and bounds had you done a semester in Buenos Aires or San Juan. Or East LA.
Lots of fine responses,
Though id be curious about the success rate of language rates in polylingual communities in the states vs homogenious communities/ countries or areas you get pretty much no exposure to the foreign language you learn unless you look for it purposely.
Not around here. The only thing offered is 1 year of Spanish in high school. If you want something else you have to go on line. One child did German on line. The other did one semester of on line German and one semester of in school Spanish. Neither learned anything they could actually use in college FL class.
Really we should have FL starting early in elementary and it should really be something other than the common French and Spanish. German, Japanese, Hindi, or Chinese. One of the languages that will be used in high tech commerce.
When I went to high school in the late 70’s, my city school only taught Spanish and French as foreign languages. I took French from 5th through 8th grade and learned absolutely nothing. Everything was based upon learning mechanical grammar rules and speaking in a perfect Parisian accent that made no sense to me as a child, and in the pre-internet days there was no way to interact with anyone who actually spoke the language outside of class.
When I graduated and went to a major state college for a STEM degree, they required proficiency in a foreign language to graduate with a BS degree. Not just any language; it had to be either a ‘scientific’ language such as German or Russian, or an ‘exotic’ language like Chinese, Hungarian, or Arabic.
I chose German, and took Beginning German 10001. On the first day of class the instructor walked in, introduced himself, and announced that the class assumed you had taken at least 3 years of German in high school, and that he hoped “there aren’t any dummies in here”. At that point he switched to teaching in German. That was the last class I attended.
I immediately went to my counselor, and enrolled in a beginning Hungarian class. My teacher was very nice, and had just come over from Hungary. Unfortunately, he barely spoke English, and of course everyone else in the class had family that spoke Hungarian with them on a regular basis. It was simply not possible to start in an acceptable foreign language in my college unless you were a gifted polyglot.
Eventually I changed to a business major which did not require a foreign language to graduate.
When I was in high school, Spanish and French were the only foreign languages offered. (I think now the school has expanded the offerings to Mandarin Chinese, and Japanese)
When I graduated and went to a major state college for a STEM degree, they required proficiency in a foreign language to graduate with a BS degree. Not just any language; it had to be either a ‘scientific’ language such as German or Russian, or an ‘exotic’ language like Chinese, Hungarian, or Arabic.
My daughter started a Mandarin immersion program when she was in 1st grade. She is finishing up 4th grade now. She is fluent in that she can fully understand when it's spoken and she can read it but the writing is the difficult part.
We also have a Spanish immersion program in our county as well a language academy in the neighboring county that children can attend. There are also independent schools around that offer Mandarin and also places that teach it on the weekends.
My son took Spanish in Kindergarten (and preschool as did my daughter...private place) and he took Mandarin in 1st grade and both of my kids attended ASL classes (private place).
In Middle school, they can take Mandarin or Spanish though if my daughter and her classmates were to take it would be like they were back in 1st grade again. They will get one class that will be completely in Mandarin each year they are in middle school. High school I'm not sure what they will do for the kids as my daughter's class is the first Mandarin immersion class to come out of the program in our county.
Interesting things I learned recently is that many people from China migrated to Southeast Asia, Indonesia, and Philippines for a few hundred yours managed to keep their own language intact. Much better than ABCs in north America. I wonder why.
Interesting things I learned recently is that many people from China migrated to Southeast Asia, Indonesia, and Philippines for a few hundred yours managed to keep their own language intact. Much better than ABCs in north America. I wonder why.
Do they marry non-Chinese? That would have a lot to do with it. In the US, while some Chinese parents might prefer their kids marry Chinese, they're powerless to stop them from marrying outside the ethnic group, and intermarriage is common in the US. That would tend to dilute language influence over generations.
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